Talk:Mortimer J. Adler

God Section

Is it just me, or does this section contain absolutely no reference to a criticism or an opposing point of view, even though there is a reference supporting his argument? Hardly balanced, since I'm sure there are definitely an abundance of criticisms of his argument and even I can think of a dozen holes in his logic just reading it tentatively for the first time. I'm going to go find some sources! 21:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.62.161.251 (talk)

Initial discsussions

Religion in Modern Times section is plagiarized, strangely enough, from Adler's own essay cited at the bottom of the page. Is someone going to edit that section? ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.23.143.155 (talk) 17:27, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you to the person who made the decision to remove the quote regarding black writers, for which no source was given. I also seriously doubt that Adler ever made such a statement. Now, it is possible that he said black writers had never written any "Great Books", but that one word, from "good" to "great", makes a huge difference where Adler was concerned. It must be understood that he had a very specific and technical definition of a "Great Book" that excludes 99.99999% of everything that has ever been written. Please see the following link for Adler's own comments on this issue: http://books.mirror.org/gb.sel1990.html.

For my comment on this, see the section below titled The "[blacks] didn't write any good books" Quote. Isokrates 15:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I've seen this same article around the internet, and always there is no source given for the quote regarding black writers, "they've never written any good books". I doubt this quote is genuine without documentation. Adler was editor of the Great Ideas Today, which did include Black authors. In another instance, Adler was widley reported as once saying "we must abolish the United States". He never said such a thing, and the "quote" was from the notorius John Birch Society. So can someone find a source for this quote before putting it back in? PBTim

It is highly unlikely Mortimer Adler would have said or written something he would consider wreckless like "We must abolish the United States" I have studied Adler's writings for many years and I am almost certain that he would not make a racial generalization such as black writers have "never written any good books." The fact is Adler was probably the best dialectical thinker since Aristotle. He criticized Aristotle for his acceptance of slavery and his strong opinions about women. Adler's "Syntopicon" and his monumental comprehensive two volume work on Freedom are supreme examples of Aristotlean dialectical thought. I too challenge anyone to produce evidence that Adler ever expressed dismissal of American Government (see his "Capitalist Manifesto", "A Vision of the Future" & "The Annals of America,"20 Vols for his clearly stated views about American Government and race) Adler had many fans and many enemies. He knew John Dewey, was not taken in with his very verbose, misleadingly cavalier writing style and he was not afraid to meet him in public debate. To John Dewey's discredit, he responded to Adler's brilliant criticism with personal attack. He said Adler and his friends were fascists. Adler disliked Dewey but he did not let that blind him to the fact that Dewey did write one good, significant book, "Education and Democracy."

Correction: Mortimer Adler did not have a degree in philosophy. His only degree was the Phd in Psychology. He was not awarded his BA degree until many years later. An Unusually talented literature professor at Columbia, John Erskine, developed the great ideas approach to general education and he was Adler's chief instructor and mentor at Columbia. I believe it was Erskine who suggested to Adler that he prepare to prepare a dissertation and to apply for the Phd degree. Erskine, at the time, was America's most well known Professor. He was a gifted musician who toured and he was creator of the historical novel.

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There is an interesting interview of Martin Gardner [ www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1420714/posts ]in which Martin says some harse things about Mortimer.

Heres the quote: "I was at Chicago during the famous Hutchins- Adler period. Mortimer Adler came from an orthodox Jewish background and became fascinated by Catholicism, and he almost joined the Catholic church. Half a dozen or more students of Adler’s at Chicago became Catholics as a result of taking courses from him. I never liked Adler. I took one course, a Great Books course he taught with Hutchins. I wrote a letter to the New Republic—it was published—saying that readers should all pray for Adler’s conversion to the Catholic church, because that would clear the air, and we would know exactly what he believed. I have a very rare document, a speech that Adler gave at Northwestern University, and incredible as it may seem, he argued that, if the Catholic church is a true church, it had a right to execute heretics. Can you imagine somebody in this day and age saying that the church had a right to execute heretics? That’s in this lecture. Adler of course is very much ashamed of it. But the punch line is that, shortly before he died, Adler joined the Catholic church. So it took about half a century for the prayers of the New Republic readers to be answered.

Notices: You wrote that letter at the time you were at Chicago?

Gardner: Yes, I was an undergraduate. Adler was a character. He had a tremendous ego. He edited the Encyclopedia Britannica. If you some of them handmade, were look through the first volume, which has general articles, you will find very short articles on Bertrand Russell, no article on Carnap, a very short article on Quine—and when you turn to Adler, a big, long article of several columns! But the university was an exciting place partly because Adler aroused so much animosity among the faculty and among the students. This led somebody to propose the “Madman Theory of Education”, which says that every university should have a madman on the faculty who gets the students all riled up in opposing his views. There was also a joke going around at the time that the University of Chicago was a Baptist school where Jewish professors were teaching Catholic theology. " For the record, I'm actually a fan of both of these quys.

Well, that was certainly harse, but I'm not sure how interesting it was. The only thing I learn from this is that Martin Gardner really didn't like Mortimer Adler, but he would not be the first. Every great mind had a thousand and one critics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.20.44.211 (talk) 13:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The "[blacks] didn't write any good books" Quote

Adler does indeed appear to have said it. I found two articles on the internet that refer to the quote: Sabrina Walters, "Great Books won Adler fame, scorn", Chicago Sun-Times, Jul 1, 2001and Henry Louis Gates, Jr. "Best Schools Have White Affirmative Action; Good and Great Books", New York Times letters to editor, 23 June 1991 Based on these two references it looks like the original quote by Adler was: "They [blacks] didn't write any good books." And it looks like it originally appeared in a December 3, 1990 Los Angeles Times article by Elizabeth Venant titled "A Curmudgeon Stands His Ground", though I haven't seen the article myself.Isokrates 15:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

There is also a reference to the quote in Dave Newbart, "Adler of 'great books' fame is dead at 98", Chicago Sun-Times, Jun 29, 2001.Isokrates 13:56, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I have now read the original source of the quote: Elizabeth Venant (1990), "A Curmudgeon Stands His Ground", The Los Angeles Times, 3 December, pp. E1-E2. Venant does indeed quote Adler as saying about blacks, "They didn't write any good books." Interestingly, and rather disturbingly, in response to a question about whether the "Great Books" list is "too Eurocentric", Adler is quoted as saying, "[Asians] came to the West, they better learn Western culture. If they want to stay Japanese, they should stay in Japan." (The backeted word is in Venant.) In light of this, I have decided to restore (a somewhat edited version of) the line that was removed as unsourced from the 21 June 2004 version of the wikiarticle: "Adler was a controversial figure in some circles who saw his focus on the classics as eurocentric and dogmatic, and he was never afraid to speak his mind. Once asked in an interview why his great books list did not include any black authors, he said simply "...they didn't write any good books." Isokrates (talk) 16:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

In spite of his views about the contribution so far of black authors, he seems to have been optimistic about their contributions in the future: he is claimed to have said, "I think probably in the next century there will be some Black that writes a great book, but there hasn't been so far" (quoted on p. 14 of Michelle McCalope, "Blacks Furious Over Exclusion from New Great Books of the Western World", Jet, 19 November 1990; I found the quote at http://www-distance.syr.edu/ndacelech7.html, but have not seen the original). Isokrates 18:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

How about a little affirmative action here. Since every ethnic group gets a turn at the Presidency, Supreme Court, football quarterbacking, etc., why can't we have a Great Book by a non–Caucasian, non–Asian person of African descent? What book can we propose for that honor? If the Quran and Virginia Woolf can make the list, why not James Baldwin or Leroi Jones?Lestrade (talk) 18:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)Lestrade

Intro/Biography

Is it normal for the lead to simply mirror the start of the Biography section? What I mean is that the intro paragraph seems to be just a simple rephrasing of the start of the Biography. Just a suggestion, as it stands right now it is readable, if a bit repetitive. 76.177.143.10 23:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. It was uncritically pasted in by 24.23.36.221 on 23 June 2007. I say "uncritically", because the original edit included a gross misrepresentation of fact: "...his command of the classics became so great that Columbia University awarded him a doctorate in philosophy...." I edited this out, but left the rest, since it seemed harmless enough. If you'd like to delete or reedit the whole intro, be my guest. Isokrates 14:28, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Archive Available at the Harry Ransom Center

Sashafresh (talk) 20:17, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello,

I work with the Harry Ransom Center at the University of Texas at Austin. I would like the Wikipedia community to know that the HRC has an Mortimer Jerome Adler. Due to conflict of interest, I cannot make changes on the page myself. Would someone please add the following in the External Links section:

"Mortimer Jerome Adler: An Inventory of His Papers at the Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center".

It would link to: http://research.hrc.utexas.edu:8080/hrcxtf/view?docId=ead/00003.xml&query=mortimer%20jerome%20adler&query-join=and

Thank you.

New Editing

My name is Tim Lacy, and I finished a dissertation in 2006 that involved extensive archival research on Adler. I made some changes to the intro (per a note above), and added a "works about" section and some new citations. Timothy.n.lacy (talk) 22:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Quote from Steven Pinker's "How The Mind Works"

Page 325 of How The Mind Works:

"As recently as the 1940's, the philosopher Mortimer Adler argued that just as there can be no three-and-a-half sided triangle, there can be nothing intermediate between an animal and a human, so human beings could not have evolved."

Is it just me, or is this a complete mischaraterization of Adler's Ideas? Adler did argue that there is a radical difference in kind between animals and human beings, but this had nothing to do with essentialism; the idea that it is impossible for the form "human" to change - thus - to evolve.

Is Pinker attacking a straw man here, or is it possible that Adler actually argued this sometime in the 1940's and later changed his mind? If he did, I can't find it anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.242.10.131 (talk) 23:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Added section on Free Will

I reviewed arguments from Adler's two-volume set The Idea of Freedom. Cmsreview (talk) 02:14, 5 April 2010 (UTC)