Talk:Operation Cobra

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hey is there a friendly fire incident involving the RAF in this?

I recently found this on a friendly fire section where it says" July 25, 1944, an Allied bombing mission near the western area of Saint-Lô carried out by the RAF resulted in heavy casualties on the 13th US infantry. This was carried out by British RAF Leigh Mallory. Anyone know this really happened?

I very much doubt it as A) Leigh Mallory was CinC of Fighter Command not Bomber Command and B) AVM generally don't fly combat missions. Wee Curry Monster talk 22:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_Expeditionary_Air_Force L-M ran a bit more than Fighter Command for Overlord.Keith-264 (talk) 12:55, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I doubt it. I'm not sure if the RAF did play a part in Operation Cobra since i tried and research it all up. Also i know it has nothing to do with this section or question but the Wikipedia article Iranian Embassy Siege. "Frank Collins claims this hostage was mistaken for the terrorist 'Salim' (codename for the leader) and believed to be carrying grenades> was it true that to colins that one name Ali Akbar Samadzadeh was killed by friendly fire from SAS? Collinswas an NCO. Secondly, he was a severely mentally ill man (more than likely psychotic and deluded) who took his own life. I don't trust that guys word. is is a reliable source of info in that that an SBS killed a hostage? I don't trust that guy cause i don't think that another hostage was killed by the SBS. BBC and most of the British newspaper only shows that one hostage was killed. i think all of them got shot by a kidnapper. anyone know this?Paulioetc (talk) 05:58, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

hey i check this one out: July 25, 1944, an Allied bombing mission near the western area of Saint-Lô carriedout by the RAF resulted in heavy casualties on the 13th US infantry. I seen this one on wikipedia and was removed several times. why do u guys remove that "RAF" thingy out of that context? well i'm putting them back in since my account been hacked so ya,JamesHawks (talk) 01:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Timeline error

How can this be an FA when the first sentence is wrong? It says COBRA started 8 weeks after D-Day. D-Day was on June 6, so 8 weeks is Aug 6, yet it says the main attacks started 25 Jul (only 6 weeks later) and the "aftermath" started 1 Aug. Seven calendar weeks is more like it (6 Jun - 25 Jul) BarkingMoon (talk) 03:04, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Montgomery idea for operation cobra

I highly doubt this claim and the reference to Bradly taking credit, I find unbelievable. I will make a point of researching this claim. It is just me or does this page also have a bias ring to itJacob805 18:21, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Also Quoting Montgomery's memoirs, please as this is being used a creditable source? Jacob805 18:25, 5 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacob805 (talk • contribs)

Please do research the claim - the more information the better. However, unfortunately we can't really base content on what you find to be believable, only on what reliable sources say. However, I'm a little confused by part of your post. Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by "does this page also have a bias ring to it"? Edit: never mind - I've seen your post at Talk:Operation_Goodwood#pov_citation_needed EyeSerene^talk 20:11, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

To answer your second question: if you can suggest a better source for verifying what Montgomery claimed about events, please let us know. EyeSerene^talk 20:08, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Montgomery Diary notes 13 July 1944, "On the First Army front a heavy blow west of ST LO must aim at "writing off" all the enemy troops between that place and the west coast of the peninsula; having broken in, fresh divisions must pass through and swing right-handed towards COUTANCES and GRANVILLE.

28. I saw Dempsey and Bradley and got them working on these plans. Actually, they have both been working up to these battles for some time and the business we now want to do is merely in accordance with my directive M. 510 dated 10 July". Montgomery and the Battle of Normandy, p. 204 (Ed. S. Brooks, Army Records Society 2008).Keith-264 (talk) 20:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Removed from article

General Omar Bradley later took credit for the planning of Operation Cobra in his memoirs. However, Bradley's plan resembles—with only slight revisions—an earlier concept devised by none other than General George S. Patton.

I've put the above here for two reasons: 1. the article already clearly implies that Bradley regarded Cobra as his idea, and 2. there's no indication that the second source is WP:RS. It seems to originate from an essay by the owner of a 'Patton' website, which may be okay if the author is a recognised expert in the field but even then we'd need to attribute to show that it's an opinion. Personally I think it may be rather a weak source for a featured article regardless. EyeSerene^talk 20:00, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Montgomery and Goodwood

There is some debate in the literature as to whether Montgomery intended Goodwood to be a diversion for the US forces as the main effort, or if Goodwood was to be a potential breakthrough by itself. Some authors assert that Montgomery offered only after Goodwood's disappointing gains that it was meant to support Bradley's operation. The article only presents one side of this though. Perhaps the addition of a sourced note would be sufficient to note the divergence of opinion in the literature? --Airborne84 (talk) 00:17, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Considering that the two attacks were supposed to be closer together and considering that Goodwood was a success in the same manner of the previous 2nd Army attacks (i.e. attritional with some contingency planning in case it was the one which triggered a German collapse it's probably a mistake to see them in isolation.Keith-264 (talk) 08:24, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I didn't mean they should be viewed in isolation. My point is that there are two views in the literature—in both primary and secondary sources: (1) that Goodwood was intended by Montgomery to be an operation by the British Army in Normandy with the aim of a breakthrough of the German defenses, and (2) that Montgomery intended for it to be a supporting effort for Bradley's 1st Army in Operation Cobra. The article, as it stands, only covers one of the two views. Readers are not informed that there is another possibility as stated in reliable primary and secondary sources. We'll probably never know Montgomery's true intentions for Goodwood, but Wikipedia is just a repository of reliable sources and should present multiple views if they exist. --Airborne84 (talk) 00:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)