Talk:Osteopathy

POV, Fringe, Minimal, and Inferior

This article is POV in that Osteopathy is often viewed as somewhat fringe, of minimal efficacy, and a degree in it is typically viewed as an inferior degree to an MD. As far as I know, only an osteopathic doctor views it as on an equal footing with nonfringe medicine. This article does not mention this so is pro-Osteopathy POV (maybe I missed it, in which case it is written in an UDUEly positive POV). Reading the article as my sole information source, one would think it does not have the shady reputation it does (whether or not this reputation is justified). If this critical view is actually true in any part, that also should be in the article. PPdd (talk) 05:28, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Comparison of MD and DO in the United States has a more complete discussion. I would say that a DO in the United States (as opposed to the more alternative practices elsewhere) should have minimal interaction with the WP:FRINGE guideline. By my personal impression, it looks like osteopathic medical schools have somewhat lower standards than medical schools, but they have largely overcome the early unsupported claims. - 2/0 (cont.) 13:10, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure a "board certified" acupuncturist might disagree with you as to other fringe. LOL :) PPdd (talk) 20:39, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

UNDUE

The section, "Osteopathy around the world" is so long it dominates the article. Instead of being about osteopathy, it reads like an attempt to promote a view of legitimacy by name dropping. PPdd (talk) 23:09, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Change the section name to Regulation, but keep the subsections; there is probably something in the MEDMOS than supports this, but if nothing else the current name does not convey a proper encyclopedic tone. Make sure that we properly convey the difference between actual regulation and professional associations. Nix the single news items and run a source check for anything talking about the other kind of osteopathy. The lists of schools are probably okay for the more targeted regional articles, but are overlong here. Cut or merge most of the educational detail except where needed in discussion of the regulations. Sound about right? - 2/0 (cont.) 04:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

My complaint is really upside down. The info on what osteopathy is UNDUEly little, not the other info is uduely too much. I still have no idea what osteopaty is beyond being people who got rejected from med school, or the rare people who had a lifelong passion to do some obscure manipulation tehcnique that they haven't even learned yet when they apply to the osteo school, so they could not know what it is they wanted to do their whole life when they were wanting to do it. It makes no sense to me, but the article sounds like what a osteo doctor said to me when I asked the difference. In instead of explaining a difference, he went into a dfensinve rant about how accredited it is, etc. PPdd (talk) 05:17, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Opening paragraph--definition?

I feel that most Wikipedia pages start with a clear explanation of the topic at the beginning. This page's opening discusses use of the word/s, what the idea is based upon, etc., but it is not clear in what osteopathy is. How can this be addressed? Is it really based upon the philosophy of the interrelationship of body structure and function, or is it just that philosophy, period? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.106.151.154 (talk) 15:09, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. The article is vague and woolly, and I still have no real idea what osteopathy is supposed to be. Sounds like pseudoscience, and the article comes across as propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.24.118 (talk) 11:32, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Alternative Medicine

The philosophy of osteopathic medicine falls within the evidence-based paradigm of conventional medicine. The concept of 'health' and 'wellness' are nuanced in Osteopathic Medicine to impart a specific emphasis in clinical practice.

The wikipedia page on Medicine states in regard to the legal controls for medical doctors: "While the laws generally require medical doctors to be trained in "evidence based", Western, or Hippocratic Medicine, they are not intended to discourage different paradigms of health." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theroofbeam (talk • contribs) 18:52, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

This article describes osteopathy in the general international sense in which it is classed as an alternative medicine, there is another article for Osteopathic medicine in the United States where osteopathic physicians are licensed to practice medicine. Ryan Paddy (talk) 19:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to reply to your reversion comment: "osteopathy uses orthodox scientific research as a basis for clinical decisions which makes it not alternative but conventional medicine. to claim the international sense is different than the patent practiced reality of osteopathy is false." I think what you need here are some good reliable sources saying that Osteopathy is conventional medicine. If you like, I'm confident that I could find a number of scholarly sources, both from medical doctors and from osteopaths, that categorise osteopathy as practiced internationally (i.e. the subject of this article) as "Complementary and Alternative Medicine", or "CAM". On Wikipedia, CAM is presented in the Alternative medicine article. There is no point in us debating the merits of whether this is an accurate designation, our personal opinions on the matter don't count here. If it's the designation used in the most reliable sources, then it's the term to use on Wikipedia. That's kinda how things work here - we go with whatever the best sources say. If the best sources disagree on the subject, then we could present that disagreement here. I'm not fobbing you off - if you present appropriate sources in support of what you're saying it'll get play in the article. Ryan Paddy (talk) 09:21, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

there's a need for new definitions

There is a need for a definition of oseteopathy in the lead. There currently isn't one. The definition in the section Osteopathy#Techniques of osteopathic treatment is too technical. makeswell (talk) 05:04, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Pro-Osteopathy POV bias

This article is NOT written objectively (as if a neutral, third-party observer wrote it) but subjectively, as if the author(s) are pro-osteopaths. Instead of reading about multiple viewpoints on osteopathy, the reader is presented with "cherry-picked" quotations and material that attempts to argue from a position (i.e., that osteopathy is a legitimate, "scientific" medical practice) while ignoring the large amount of literature that suggests otherwise.

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/osteo.html

Ryoung122 18:29, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

this is one of the most biased articles i've ever seen on wikipedia

Why don't they just come out in the opening paragraph and say "In 99 percent of cases, Osteopaths is just another word for Chiropractor, that attempts to make it sound more legitimate because most people don't recognize the word Osteopath." Seriously, this article is misleading and completely uninformative. I vote to have the whole thing deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.197.124.19 (talk) 16:35, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Definitely uninformative. I read the article and still have no idea what osteopathy is. 150.101.58.177 (talk) 01:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Osteopathy came before chiropractic. Daniel David Palmer invented chiropractic after being taught osteopathy by Andrew Taylor Still. So osteopathy is not "another word for chiropractor", rather chiropractic is an offshoot of osteopathy that has gone its own way. However, I agree that the article is uninformative about what osteopaths actually do. The closest the lead comes is mentioning that some osteopaths perform "manual therapy". The chiropractic article says in its lead that "chiropractic treatment technique involves manual therapy, including manipulation of the spine, other joints, and soft tissues; treatment also includes exercises and health and lifestyle counseling". Similarly simple statements should be made about osteopathic treatment in the lead of this article, and in the section on treatment techniques, to make things clearer to the average reader. Ryan Paddy (talk) 04:34, 2 February 2012 (UTC)