Talk:Pan-Africanism

Shouldn't there be some mention of the Pan-African conferences? Perhaps an entire section devoted to them? Calder 17:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calder (talk • contribs)

I would like to merge this article with Afrocentrism, and then make it a redirect to that article. See Talk:Afrocentrism, --SqueakBox 21:21, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

I don't think that's a good idea; Pan-Africanism relates to Afrocentrism, but they definitely aren't the same thing - you can view Pan-Africanism as more of a political movement, and Afrocentrism as a cultural one. Perhaps another route to take would be expanding this article to provide more detail on the politcal side of things. --Feralcats 21:57, April 5, 2005 (EST)

--SqueakBox 01:59, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)If the article were better it would be a different kettle of fish,

---

To close the above quasi discussion, let me present some Google-cred:

1. +Pan +Africa-> 3,700,000 google hits
2. PanAfrica -> 104,000
3. "Pan Africanism" and "Pan-Africanism" -> 50,500
4. +Pan +Africanism -> 53,700
5. PanAfricanism -> 22,200

I rest my case. Unsigned comment

You are misquoting the above Google information, the first option will find every article containing "pan" and "africa" so an article about cooking in africa using a frying pan will be inclided the same with any any hyphonated words, as Google treats spaces and hyphons as the same thing even if they are "**" for search purposes. Just as "PanAfrica" will also include everything under the "PanAfricanism" search as it is contained in PanAfricanism. 81.149.82.243 11:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge? Ridiculous! But this piece needs major improvement

The suggestion to merge this article with Afrocentrism is absolutely absurd. Afrocentrism is a paradigm for the study of history and a particular world-view about how human history has unfolded. Pan-Africanism is a sociopolitical ideology and a general framework for real-world change.

Further, this article needs major work. IMO, the earlier definition which I contributed some time ago is certainly far superior to the one that currently stands. In editing the first few paragraphs, which limited the diasporic peoples encompassed by the term to the descendants of African slaves, I came to realize, "Hey, I've been here before." I went back and read my earlier edits -- which address the important issues which gave rise to the concept itself (and which are inexplicably and completely absent from the present version).

What a difference!

To divorce the movement from the objective historical, political, economic and societal circumstances which gave rise to it makes absolutely no sense. If you must edit an article, please take care to improve it -- not just replace someone else's words with your own. I know that all pieces on this website are essentially works in progress, but this article is a piece crap and needs major work. Unfortunately, by and large, the current version is not an improvement upon earlier edits.

Because I would prefer to have this piece framed by black people (and others) who are already knowledgeable about and interested in pan-Africanism, I will not put this on the list of articles for improvement -- yet. But if the abjectly sucky, crapitude of this piece isn't substantially altered in the next few weeks, I certainly will do so. And God knows what will happen to it then! :p deeceevoice 09:44, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Article development

I second deeceevoice - 1) no merging of this article; 2) the changes proposed by deeceevoice will be beneficial to this article's width and depth.

I propose adding a sideboxes with Pan-African flags (home & abroad) and pictures of prominent figures - I will wait 2 weeks for comments/suggestions before actioning. Also intend adding paragraph re: OAU / AU.

212.159.17.143 13:02, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Deeceevoice, just rewrite it already. You know you want to!! I think that if you're going to describe pan-Africansim as a political movement, then it will be necessary to have a paragraph about the OAU/AU. I'll look at it!

Merge proposal

• Merge Pan-African into Pan-Africanism. There should also be an article on Pan-African studies. Badagnani 00:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
• Merge Article should go back to Sons of Africa and the Sierra Leone Company, the foundation of Liberia and work through with the different historical periods. Harrypotter 13:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Very poor standard

have a look at this "the green standing for the vegetation of the Black races' African motherland and the black for African descended people themselves." what is it trying to say? Why dont the pan-Africanist clean up this site? --Halaqah 14:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

CLEANNED UP, KEEP IT CLEAN

ok it was a pain to look at, a poor reflection of the title. now i bet the "pan-Africanist" will come an attack me, they dont see what ur trying to do, no they attack and find some accusation to discredit the work.anyway keep it clean it needs ref, and it should be objective, not emotional. --Halaqah 15:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ge'ez

However, much evidence is still required to determine whether Ge'ez is a language native to Africa or whether it was under the influence of the extinct Southern Arabian script. The above was deleted by me, i put it here to curb this kind of thinking. Southern Arabian doesnt imply not African, why must we debate in such a limited geographical realm, even if Ge'ez was Southern Arabian it doesnt mean "not African" I have to point you to a valid discussion as i am not qualified although i read and write Ge'ez a little Discussion about Arabic influence on Ethiopian --Halaqah 16:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Please stop adding POV to the African Codes usage of Ge'ez. The claim is they uses it or believe it should be used to write all African languages. There is no need to disucss a POV or what Ge'ez on this site, it would be better to place this debate elsewhere. You have cited no references at it is a POV, which has nothing to do with the African Code. There is no claim attached it simply states it is the last African script, baka,---HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 02:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Some revisions, and several questions

I reworded a lot of things to make them clearer, and did a bit of my own research to make things more accurate, but I still had a bunch of questions that I didn't know how to answer. I'll stick them here and cross-link a bit, and hopefully some other people who know more about Pan-Africanism can answer them.

• In Pan-Africanism#Origins:
  • by the end of the eighteenth century a political movement developed across the Americas, Europe and Africa which sought to weld these disparate movements into a network of solidarity putting an end to this oppression. Did this political movement have a name? Was this a mission of Sons of Africa, or is Sons of Africa just one of many groups recruited into this larger network?
  • I added a short blurb about the origins of modern Pan-Africanism, but it could use some more information. Currently it only mentions the first Pan-African conference, but if there were any definitive books about Pan-Africanism published around the 1880s-1900s, they could be mentioned here as well.
• In Pan-Africanism#Concepts:
  • The information on past Pan-African organizations should probably go into its own, expanded section, but I left it here for now. If you scroll down to the end, I mention this more in my last section.
• In Pan-Africanism#Key Figures:
  • I put in a short, out of date list, but more people (either everyone listed in the talkbox or 10-15 truly key individuals) and more information on each individual should be added. I can work on that very slowly, but as I've said, this isn't my area of expertise, and reading up on every person and then trying to figure out who's key and who isn't would take me a very long time.
• In Pan-Africanism#Academics:
  • I think more information on Pan-African studies should be added.
• In Pan-Africanism#Political Parties and Organizations
  • I'm really unclear on why these organizations in particular are listed; I get that they're all currently functioning, but why isn't Uhuru Movement, for example, listed? I'll add it tomorrow if no one else has, but there are probably other influential Pan-African organizations out there that need to be added, but that I don't know about. Added. --Jetamors 00:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
  • The A-APRP website was less than informative. I could contact them and ask them to send me some materials, but is there anybody who has more information on them?
  • The Nguzo Saba/Seven Principles/Seven Key Principles/Seven Principles of Blackness should be referred to uniformly, but I'm not sure which is correct, or if it should be capitalized. In Kwanzaa it's Seven Principles of Kwanzaa, but based on the Us website I think they're meant to have a wider application.
• In Pan-Africanism#Pan-African Concepts and Philosophies
  • I stuck these together, first because they seem to overlap, and second because there was only one thing in the Philosophy section.
  • Is it important that the African code considers Kiswahili and Ge'ez to be official? I left that sentence in, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.
  • Should Negritude be added to this section? Are there some other things that should be added?
• In general:
  • I think a section on notable past Pan-African association is needed: for example, the Pan African Association, the Pan African Congress, Marcus Garvey's Universal Negro Improvement Association-African Communities League, etc., etc. I'm only vaguely aware of where to look for this stuff, so it would help if somebody else came along and added it.
  • Additionally, I think a section on Pan-African scholarship should be added, probably in the Pan-Africanism#Academics. Just the references from this page give me the Journal of Pan African Studies, but where else do people get published?
  • I tried to standardize: Pan-African, both parts capitalized, with hypen. The only exception is group names formatted differently, such as Pan African Association. But I might have missed a few places, or there may be good arguments for doing it a different way.
  • The organizations section almost certainly needs to be improved. There are groups that should be mentioned there but aren't, such as the Uhuru Movement, and some of the groups mentioned don't seem to be that important. I'd really appreciate it if someone who knows more about the current situation could make the call on that. I added the groups listed on the talkbox, so I think what we have now is okay, though it may be too inclusive. --Jetamors 00:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, I may be able to work on some of these things over the weekend, but a lot of it desperately needs a subject matter expert, or at least somebody who's taken a class in pan-Africanism. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jetamors 21:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:GAfrikancongress.jpg

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Wiki Is not a shopping list

Do not add unknowns to a list which shouldnt be there anyway, How long will it get if we just keep adding anyone who claims to be a Pan-Africanist -

Africana womanism

Helo everyone! You may be interested in checking out Africana womanism. Thank you! The Ogre (talk) 15:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

POOR QUALITY | EXPERT NEEDED

Apart from the section on Origins, it seems like a shopping list of famous people and famous or infamous organizations. Almost like a disconnected trivia page on Pan-Africanism.

• Where is the African Union in this article? (2 minor references)
• Where is the Pan-Africanism today?
• the problems facing Pan-Africanism?
• Arguments for an against
• Role of Bob Marley, Garvey, Malcolm X, Ghadaffi in Pan-Africanism, as oppose to a shopping list of their names

An expert that can expand and develop the article is necessary. And that shopping list of Pan-Africanist needs to be deleted and merged into the history and development of Pan-Africanism, because it is just lazy to have names disconnected. If they are Pan-Africanist then put them in their historical place in the body of the story of Pan-Africanism. --Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 08:58, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Just because the article is poor quality doesn't mean add content without reference. Treat African History with the respect other sections on wikipedia are treated BY Using References and sources.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 13:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

WIKI LEDE undue weight and not worldview

The views of Pan-Africanism in America do not belong in the LEDE, See wiki lede for more info. We have Brazil, the Caribbean and guess what Africa with Pan-Africanism. So how does an Ethnic minority opinion which talks more about Afrocentrism get into the lede? The sources are about Afrocentrism not necessarily Pan-Africanism. Afrocentic Pan-Africanism is a sub-topic here that is where it belongs. We have over 54 nations under the AU and this POV is weak at best as it relates to Pan-Africanism. I do not see any Seats at the AU for America. So how does the opinion of two European authors get into the Lede as it relates to Afrocentrism based upon their own ignorant assumptions of Pan-Africanism. --Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 15:23, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Because most literature on Pan-Africanism is written in the US. I do not dispute that there is some Pan-Africanism in Africa, but this is an extremely marginal phenomenon because most people in Africa probably realize that there are various unrelated peoples within the continent. Would you believe that Haplogroup L0 (mtDNA) suggests that the Khoisa are actually the most archaic human group to spilt off our family tree, while everybody else in Africa is more closely related to Europeans and Polynesians than to the Khoisa?

Yes, there is a second, completely unrelated meaning of the term "Pan-Africanism", referring to modern economic or political unification of the various African states. This is not normally called "Pan-Africanism", but because some African dictators (notably Gaddafi) conflate the crackpot ideology with real-world politics, the line is difficult to draw. You are welcome to add a discussion of this if you cite your references. Seriously, when are you going to recognize that you have no business even editing here as long as you do not respect WP:CITE?

The normal term for "Pan-African organization" is Pan-African. Note the lack of "-ism". E.g., Pan-African Parliament. This has nothing to do with ideological Pan-Africanism, it simply means that all African countries are represented.

You are very welcome to discuss "Pan-Africanism" in the sense of "advocacy of Pan-African structures". You may use a source (remember WP:CITE) such as The failure of grassroots Pan-Africanism by Opoku Agyeman (2003). I hope the name of the author sounds sufficiently non-European to you to prevent you from bursting into another rant. --dab (𒁳) 17:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I quote:

• "some Pan-Africanism in Africa" Only some, are you really sure?
• "Most Pan-African books are written in the USA" ^{[citation needed]}

Do you think they would be more Pan-Africanist in Africa or in America? Is Bill Cosby and Sharpton Pan-Africanist? What about Cornell West and Vanessa Williams. What percentage of the Pan-African world do the few African-Americans constitute to Pan-Africanism? And how many people hold the opinion uncerimonusly inserted into the LEDE? is that not un-due weight? And bias? The opinion of anti-Afrocentrics who still do not know the difference between Afrocentrism and Pan-Africanism. Let me explain PAN and AFRICAN ISM (the ideology of Pan- African). Like commun ISM. The failure of Grass roots Pan-Africanism is a book you grabbed from google (did it come up on the top page?)Is the autor talking about Afrocentrism? is the word even in his article? Most Pan-Africanist are not Afrocentrics. And many Afrocentrics have no interest in Pan-Africanism some of them are Black Nationalist in America. Feel free to continue to edit the article as an expert on Pan-Africanism. You may want to deal with the writings of this man Konari and the few books Nkrumah wrote. I now realize what you are saying Nkrumah was not a Pan-Africanist He was a Pan-African organizer. I think you are making my argument for me. Yes you are more qualified on ALL of these topics despite my 5 year history editing here. Out of the blue you decide to change the LEDE to suit an argument on Pre-Colonial Africa. A few hours ago you told me your agenda was not Political. Take a look at your edits to poor Obenga now what did he do to deserve that?--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 19:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Sourced material only

It is easy angry to get annoyed at this article, it is missing a lot of content. It is basically empty. But do not make it worst by adding our opinion (even if that opinion is correct). And do not delete referenced material (the little referenced material we do have). Do the research and use the Talk Page to make the article better. And No, Wikipedia is not a reference.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 08:40, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Two tags Worldview and Primary source

Both tags have no justification in the talk page. Worldview, I do not see how that is an issue. It deals with Pan-Africanism in Barbados, Africa and America and the UK. Primary sources, CNN, et all are not primiary sources. Plus it is a specialist topic so the volume of sources will be like that.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 05:37, 7 November 2011 (UTC)