Talk:Penalty shoot-out (association football)

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FA CUP Penalties

Quote: "Until 1991, any number of replays were permitted, with a record of five" I know this to be incorrect. 23rd January, 4th Rnd, Chelsea 0 Wrexham 0. 26th January 4th Rnd Replay Wrexham 1 Chelsea 1 aet. Toss of coin decided venue for next replay. Wrexham won and elected to play at home. Hence: 1st February 4th Rnd second replay Wrexham 1 Chelsea 2. For the first time in history it was decided to use penalties to settle the outcome of this match if needed in the second replay. I went to all 3 matches and remember this historic match very well. IIRC it was due to a cold winter, fixture congestion and some form of industrial action making travel difficult. But I am sure penalties were used before 1991. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.66.135 (talk) 19:11, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

I take it the year in question is 1982. It's an interesting factoid if true, and worth mentioning in the article. If you have any citable source for this -- e.g. a newspaper cutting -- that would help. A match programme would not be sufficient.

On the broader question, your example does not disprove the statement that any number of replays were permitted; it was explicitly an exception, and there were many instances of a second or third replay in subsequent seasons. jnestorius^(talk) 09:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Sources for year of introduction

It is frustratingly difficult to find evidence for occasions where penalties were provided for but not actually needed. Google News archive only gets you so far; someone with better access to online newspaper archives might be able to verify more. For European club finals, the changeover was presumably between 1974, when the EC final went to a replay, and 1980, when the CWC final went to penalties. It's also striking that in Euro 76 the teams were able to agree between themselves to use penalties rather than a replay; I can't imagine FIFA allowing the converse these days! jnestorius^(talk) 09:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Rebound/Saved/Goal?

Does anyone know what the correct procedure is for this penalty shoot-out situation? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNC-gvoZEFM

Should this actually be a goal, as it has at that point rebounded off the keeper, and it appears at this point the kick should be over. there is nothing in the current article that actually covers it. Auto98uk (talk) 15:29, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

The ref was right, the keeper was foolish. The Madrid Rule paragraph is relevant; bouncing off the keeper and/or woodwork does not mean the kick is "over". Although the initial kick must be taken forwards, the ball's subsequent direction of movement is immaterial. The Madrid Rule is in fact part of Law 14 (for the penalty kick) rather than specific to the shootout; the shootout rules use Law 14 by default but obviously override much of it (where other players stand, etc). In Law 14, deciding when a penalty kick is "over" becomes relevant only in the rare case that the penalty is the last kick of the half. Obviously the funny incident in the youtube clip is far less likely in ordinary play. The final get-out clause is that the ref decides when a penalty kick is over. The match apparently (yahoo.fr) was in the 2010 Coupe du Trône eighth-finals; FAR Rabat keeper was Khalid Askri. Maghreb Fez kicker's name is Mohamed Ali Benaamar according to this fansite, though I don't know which player on Wikipedia's team roster that corresponds to. jnestorius^(talk) 18:52, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply & clarification Auto98uk (talk) 13:55, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Origin

What is the difference between the early variants used in several domestic competitions and minor tournaments and the modern shoot-out that is credited to Yosef Dragen? According to this article in the Grenchner Tagblatt from today, the Uhrencup 1962 already had the form that each team had five penalties, but after they were still tied, they had eventually to continue until RC Brugeois scored one more than AC Como and won the penalty shoot-out with 11-10. -- Firefox13 (talk) 09:21, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Ok, in the talk archives I found that the Coppa Italia and the Swiss Youth Cup had slight differences. Do we know anything about the Yugoslav Cup? It seems to me (and this is the claim of the article) that the Uhrencup was the first tournament that used the modern variant. Any other opinions? -- Firefox13 (talk) 10:03, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I did some investigations and found that in the first few years, the Uhrencup also only used a variant of the modern shoot-out, i.e. one player of each team had to execute all 5 penalties. Therefore, they don't seem to be the first tournament that used the modern variant, as has been claimed. -- Firefox13 (talk) 08:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)