Talk:Propylhexedrine

Bottom part reads like a how-to for extracting propylhexedrine from inhalers

The section in chemistry starting from "Propylhexadrine is an amine" to the end of that section looks to me like practical instruction on how to do an acid/base extraction to seperate propylhexedrine from the other stuff in inhalers. Such how-to information isn't supposed to be in wikipedia, and the information on the properties of amines should probably not be here at all - otherwise we'd be justified in having that mention on every article about an amine.

68.186.246.165 (talk) 01:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Response to above

It certainly wasn't intended to be a "how to" guide for extracting propylhexedrine from benzedrex inhalers; if, however, it reads that way to a lot of folks, I wouldn't be opposed to its removal (I added that part and by this I mean if it was removed due to consensus I wouldn't try to add it back / start and edit war).

Personally, I feel the info I added would be completely insufficient to do a proper extraction for somebody without pre-existing chemistry knowledge (and those with that knowledge don't count, since they know how to do it already without any help from the internet).

I simply wanted to clarify the nature of the propylhexedrine contained in benzedrex (that it is the freebase, a volatile oily substance, which allows for a small amount to be inhaled when used as directed as a nasal decongestant); additionally, I felt that stating that the propylhexedrine in benzedrex is racemic was good information to have in an article about this substance (though ... a source would be nice ... I had a source for this information that I cannot track down now for some reason - help would be much appreciated - I'm VERY sure that the propylhexedrine in benzedrex is racemic, though).

You have a point about the generic information about simple amines. Perhaps the simple protonation-deprotonation examples were unnecessary because in a way you're correct - why should propylhexedrine have that info while the tons of other amines on wiki don't - perhaps a link to the amine article would be better for people who want to know the basics of amine chemistry.

As far as the description of the salt form propylhexedrine hydrochloride - I don't see what the problem is with that. It's a known substance that is definitely made by people who use this substance recreationally and is certainly made in legitimate labs also (I believe the anoretic drug Eventin was propylhexedrine HCl 25 mg). Also, the comment that PHX HCl can be vaporized is there because this is done among those who abuse the drug - I think articles about drugs that are recreational can delve into routes of administration (the different routes, their respective dangers, differing bioavailabilities, etc...) and still be completely encyclopedic.

This part may need some changes, but I'd like to wait for more input if everybody is alright with that. If there's a desire to trim that part I added down, I won't try to revert it back to its current state.

However I must again mention that .... I'm not seeing how it's a "how to" guide for extracting this drug from the inhalers. The only people who would be able to pick up and do an extraction after reading that part already have prior understanding of acid-base separation of chemicals IMO.

I'm not logged in I just realized. This is thesmallprint189 posting. 98.15.227.105 (talk) 02:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

More info on Eventin?

This article would benefit from some cited info on the prescription use of this drug as an anorectic. I see that mention is made of "Eventin", but I'm having serious trouble finding a reference to said pharmaceutical brand name anywhere on the Net. Can anybody provide some more information on prescription use of this drug? It might well also provide useful dose comparisons between the recreational internal use and the "official" internal prescribed dose. Bullzeye ^contribs 23:50, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Apparently it's no longer on the market in any Western countries (which explains the lack of information). I found one reference that described a 25mg dose for the UK preparation, but it's nothing you can cite. From my experience, 25-50mg of PHD once or twice daily would be fairly tolerable and wouldn't strongly effect a user's mood. As for its effectiveness, your guess is as good as mine. 74.178.245.217 (talk) 18:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Recreational use underestimated

The section on recreational abuse potential needs to go. For starters it suggest that menthol and lavendor oil can't be removed from benzedrex when in reality this is a very simple process(just put it in water). Then it starts warning people away from using it. I can tell you this drug has a HUGE following and you can find all sorts of discussions about it among meth and adderall users. YVNP (talk) 04:17, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Stereochemistry section incorrect

Under the chemistry section, it currently states:

"Propylhexedrine, like amphetamine and methamphetamine, is a chiral compound (the α-carbon is chiral, like in its amphetamine cousins). Like other monoamine releasing stimulants with the amphetamine type backbone, the dextrorotatory isomer of propylhexedrine is much more active as a norepinephrine and dopamine releaser in the central nervous system than the levorotatory isomer is. The propylhexedrine contained in Benzedrex inhalers is racemic d,l-propylhexedrine as the freebase. It is likely that pure d-propylhexedrine would have a higher abuse potential and less undesirable side effects than the racemic compound."

The author of this makes the assumption that orientation of the alpha carbon in D-methamphetamine and D-propylhexedrine are analogus, but this is incorrect. When the orientation of the alpha carbon of propylhexedrine matches the orientation of the alpha carbon of D-methamphetamine, it is referred to as the levo isomer of propylhexedrine, levopropylhexedrine. In fact, levopropylhexedrine is synthesized from dextromethamphetamine (source). According to this study, it was concluded that l-N-Methyl-β-cyclohexylisopropylamine HCl (a.k.a. levopropylhexedrine) and d-N-Methyl-β-phenylisopropylamine HCl (a.k.a. d-methamphetamine) were the more active of the stereo isomers regarding pressor and excitatory actions.

I think using the R/S notation for stereo isomers would help illustrate this point. When using the R/S notation for stereo-chemistry, then it is true that (S)-methamphetamine corresponds to (S)-propylhexedrine, and that the S isomer of both drugs is the more pharmacologically active of the pair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.58.254 (talk) 00:52, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

IV injection risks section should be relooked at if even necessary or correct.

Seeing as "transient diplopia" is being a technical term for double vision, it makes me wonder the broadness of interpretation that is undertaken with the phrase "and brainstem dysfunction"? Isn't any non-endogenous chemical effecting receptors in the human brainstem also technically a dys-function (if not even 'mal-function'; dys- as something foreign to the usual functioning of a bodily organ rather than a negative or bad "mal-" functioning?). So shooting propylhexedrine seems no more dangerous than shooting methamphetamine and the section seems a bit overblown in my opinion. Most sources of any drug of abuse seem to overplay the seriousness of their IV route of administration, but in comparing to other drugs are dubious in why the drug subject topic is so much worse generally; really it seems mostly the one writing is just doing some ethical duty that outweighs that authors own value set on forthright information bearing to the intended audience by making their drug of discussion out to be avoided by any rationalizing means. Even if improperly comparing to the risks of other similar drugs the audience may have experience with or desensitization to the fear of the use of a particular route with. Nagelfar (talk) 04:17, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

3D structure

This is this a racemate. 3D structure is one specific configuration (one enantiomer). Thus, the 3D structure is wrong and should be eliminated. Best regards, --Jü (talk) 11:21, 24 February 2011 (UTC)