Talk:J. Robert Oppenheimer

Poisoned apple...again

I am taking out the part about the poisoned apple. We already had a discussion about this before. Gladwell (who is not an expert on Oppenheimer) is the only source for the allegation. Most Oppenheimer experts and biographers including Bird and Sherwin, Cassidy and Rhodes describe the act as ambiguous at best, something that Oppenheimer may have actually done or a story he may have made up under stress, jealousy and depression. In any case, citing it as an undisputed fact based only on Gladwell's assertion is not warranted. But somebody could work it in in a more speculative manner if they are interested. Ashujo 19:30, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

From Bird and Sherwin:
In the fall of 1925, Oppenheimer poisoned an apple with chemicals from the laboratory and put it on Blackett's desk ... As Robert's parents were still visiting Cambridge, the university authorities immediately informed them of what had happened. Julius Oppenheimer frantically - and successfully - lobbied the university not to press criminal charges. After protracted negotiations, it was agreed that Robert would be put on probation and have regular sessions with a prominent Harley Street psychiatrist in London. This Freudian analyst diagnosed dementia praecox, a now archaic label for symptoms associated with schizophrenia. He concluded that Oppenheimer was a hopeless case and that "further analysis would do more harm than good". I do not have my books here, so this will have to wait a couple of weeks. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:45, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

The story about the apple needlessly besmirches JRO's reputation. It should be removed. The London psychiatric analysis possibly revealed that he merely suffered from an eating disorder and was known to leave uneaten apples behind him when he left a room.Lestrade (talk) 17:10, 25 April 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

Do you want it redacted because it is not true, or because it besmirches his reputation? Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:49, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

I've reverted an anon's removal of the material as I see no consensus as yet to take out this cited material. I also note that it was accepted at the article's FAC review. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:26, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

"What is Truth? said jesting Pilate," Francis Bacon.Lestrade (talk) 01:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

• "What is Verifiability?" -- Jimmy Wales (attrib.) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:44, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Did anyone actually see JRO poison the apple? If so, we all know how perceptions are deceptive. Did JRO freely admit to it? If so, was he coerced or did he confess in order to protect Miss Margaret Casierro, whom he may have been dating?Lestrade (talk) 20:02, 26 April 2011 (UTC)Lestrade

The apple story is just one of many items that could negatively influence JRO's reputation. The man had flaws, and he did not freely admit to most of those flaws. Roger (talk) 09:40, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I think it is best to add that the act was ambiguous at best. I will get some more references from Rhodes, Herken and Cassidy and then amend the account as it currently stands. Ashujo 19:30, 5 March 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.19.81.145 (talk)

We have good sources for it. Anbiguity will just confuse the reader. If you can convince me that it is factually incorrect, from Sherwin or Herken, then I will remove it from the article. Hawkeye7 (talk) 06:29, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Oppenheimer's own account (which is narrated pretty much only by Ferguson) is the only authentic version we have. Thus it's only fair to indicate that Ferguson's account is the only existing detailed version. I don't think there's any ambiguity in communicating this. It's interesting that this story was never a part of the article until Malcolm Gladwell wrote about it in the New Yorker. Gladwell is not an expert on Oppenheimer and has not even provided references in his article (verifiability, anyone?); thus I won't call him a "good source". When someone is communicating such a strange story of significant import, it's worth conveying the ambiguity in it. In any case, I have tried to pen a simple yet inclusive version of the event. Ashujo 19:30, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I can live with this new version. I note also that you restored my edit about Herbert Smith, which was removed during the FAC. Hawkeye7 (talk) 00:09, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

The reason for including Smith is that he played a pretty important role in Oppenheimer's early youth. As I am sure you know, many of his letters from this period are addressed to Smith. I think there's no harm in noting him as an important influence on Oppenheimer. Ashujo 19:30, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

"Named names"?

"Had Oppenheimer's clearance not been stripped then he might have been remembered as someone who had "named names" to save his own reputation."

This is probably true, but in the absence of a reference it decidedly sounds like speculation. Does anyone know a reference we can include? Ashujo (talk) 11:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

There is a reference. Polenberg 2005, pp. 267–272. The whole article is referenced. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:18, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Do you think you can state the reference after the line? Thanks. Ashujo (talk) 11:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:25, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Lecture with Oppenheimer

I enjoyed this : RLA: 1953 6. The Sciences and Man's Community Professor Robert Oppenheimer explains how human communities resemble atoms in the final Reith Lecture from his series ‘Science and the Common Understanding’. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/rla48/rla48_19531220-0900a.mp3 James Michael DuPont (talk) 04:05, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

No evidence that J. Robert's father's middle initial was "S"

I deleted the "S" from J. Robert's father Julius' name. Neither census records nor his certificate of marriage to Ella Friedman contain the "S" middle initial. Furthermore, this fuels confusion among many genealogists that J. Robert's father was actually Julius Seligman Oppenheimer, who was born in NYC in 1865, NOT Germany. Briankaz (talk) 12:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)