Talk:Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kiev

principal cathedral of Kievan metropolitan?

The article currently says that St. Sofia "is ... the principal cathedral of Kievan metropolitan". Is that so? If it WAS the principal cathedral of Kievan metropolitan in some historic times, we should change the wording. I would need to research what its status is now, but if anyone can quickly tell off-hand, please confirm this info here or correct in the article. Metropolitan Volodymyr (Viktor Sabodan) is in Kiev Pechersk Lavra. The mother cathderal of "Patriarch Filaret's" church is St. Volodymyr's Cathedral. Thanks! -Irpen June 28, 2005 19:02 (UTC)

The name "cathedral" in proper sense kind of implies that it must have a bishop's cathedra in it. To my best knowledge, it was originally designed by Yaroslav as the seat of the metropolitan (who is also a bishop of Kyiv, of course). Lavra was always a monastery and it was not practical to have bishop's seat there: just too much disruption to the life of the monks.

Currently, UPTs's (Volodymyr's) cathedral is Uspensky sobor in Lavra. Filaret's cathedral is Volodymyrsky sobor. Autocephalous church holds its principal services in St. Andrew's church. Also, Filaret holds services sometimes in Mykhailivsky sobor, but I don't think it counts as his cathedral in proper sense. I suppose that Sophia is not in active use.

So, it may be safe to change in to "was".Sashazlv 28 June 2005 22:47 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, St. Sofia's was given for use to different churches lately. Maybe, there is some kind of rotation. I seem to remember the Filaret's church makes some claims for it but it does not look like it's going to get it any time soon. So, we should change this to the past tense, you're right. -Irpen June 28, 2005 22:57 (UTC)

Necropolis and Cloister

Can someone carry over some of the information from this site and also provide information on the monastaty that existed there?Kuban kazak 18:34, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Doesn't anyone competent read this page?

I have to say I am baffled by what has happened here, the article Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kiev contains blunt propaganda with phrases like "After the Mongolian Tatars pillaged Kiev in 1240 the cathedral fell into disrepair and was even occupied by the uniats" (as of course any russian knows the that a little russia chuch belongs to Ukrainian Greek Catholics is its ultimate downfall far greater then being plundered). I edited the article [1] in the spirit of NPOV and added information about the sacking of the city and the Cathedral 1169 and the mecenate of Ukrainian Hetman Ivan Mazepa (two facts that are most likely delibaratley omitted by the troll who wrote the formentioned passage for propagandistic reasons as Vladimir-Suzdal is a sort of protorussia and Hetman Mazepa, a great sponsor of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church is a national hero of Ukraine who tried to undo the consequences of the illfated Pereyaslav Rada), and fixed a typo. And then I find that ten minutes later my corrections were undone by some troll carrying a portrait of Stalin. --Tomaschuk 10:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

My advice to you is WP:FAITH in front of everything, then wrt WP:NPOV statements such as as Vladimir-Suzdal is a sort of protorussia, Hetman Mazepa...a great...national hero of Ukraine and illfated Pereyaslav Rada are hardly less NPOV than the article's past state. WRT your allegations against me, please WP:NPA, regards.--Kuban Cossack 14:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

this is however a discussion page and not an encyclopedic article. --Tomaschuk 17:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Rename

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move to Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kiev, as that is an existing title. The title meets WP:PRECISION so is appropriate, and there is no consistency with disambiguating cathedral titles - some use a comma, some use brackets, some use "in Foo". SilkTork *^YES! 10:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

---

Saint Sophia's Cathedral, Kiev → Saint Sophia Cathedral (Kiev) —

1. "Saint Sophia" isn't a person, it means "Holy Wisdom". 2. It's not normal practice for Eastern Orthodox churches to the possessive in their name. It's Saint John Cathedral (Edmonton), not St. John's.Relisted. Fences&Windows 20:36, 1 July 2010 (UTC) 04:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. While I'm not knowledgeable enough regarding Eastern Orthodox churches to comment on the main part of the move, I would suggest retaining the comma in the title, rather than enmploying parenthesis. 84.92.117.93 (talk) 16:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
• Support. Normal practice for buildings is to disambiguate in parentheses unless the place is part of the name, which here it is not. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:57, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
• Relisted. We're all agreed on getting rid of the apostrophe, but should it be: 1. "...Cathedral (Kiev)"; 2. "...Cathedral, Kiev"; or 3. "...Cathedral in Kiev"? The latter is the standard for other cathedrals by this name, and a common way of referring to it in sources). Fences&Windows 20:36, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
• Comment Would be happy to Support a move to Saint Sophia Cathedral, Kiev. Skinsmoke (talk) 05:42, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
• Strong Rename to Saint-Sophia Cathedral (Kiev) as per UNESCO World Heritage Centre site. -- Garik 11 (talk) 09:38, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
• Rename to Saint Sophia Cathedral, Kiev only because if you check in Category:Cathedrals in Ukraine this appears to be the way these are disambiguated. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:14, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
• Comment and then to look at a page like Cathedral of Saint Paul and to see the nomenclature used there. Apostrophes and commas. So it comes down to how is it generally referred, and do we have good guidance for nomenclature of buildings. billinghurst sDrewth 03:35, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
• Comment Look at Saint Sophia Cathedral - the top one comes here via a redirect (made by a move in Jan 1010). They all say "in X", it would consistent to move it back.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 22:32, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.