Talk:Secret society

Archiving

I have moved the old discussions (from 2006 to Jan of 2011) to a linked and search-able archive page. Blueboar (talk) 01:20, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Anglo-centric bias

The tag saying this article "may not represent a worldwide view of the subject" is more than justified: this article SOLELY covers secret societies in the Western World and, excepting one off-hand example from Poland, only talks about secret societies in the Anglosphere. There is nothing on Chinese Hui_(secret_society) or Tongs, nor the prominent role secret societies have played in Imperial China's dynastic cycle (the White Lotus Society and then Red Turbans toppled the Yuan Dynasty, later the Heaven Earth Society fought against the Qing dynasty). None of this is mentioned. This is a serious problem of WP:Systemic_bias, English Wikipedia's tendency to center on Western culture at the expense of the history and contributions of Asia and the Global South. See WP:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias.

You might be thinking, "if you see imbalance, WP:BEBOLD and rewrite the article to correct the issue," but I don't want to go it alone. If I could get some moral support, if not collaboration, that would be great...before I move forward and completely overhaul this article. --NickDupree (talk) 20:29, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Part of the issue is, as I'm sure you can guess, that the wast majority of editors are westerners. If you have the time, the willingness and the sources to expand this article to cover more ground, I would love to see what you can add. Personally I lack the sources and time :/ WegianWarrior (talk) 05:15, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I think part of the problem is that people disagree about the definition of the term "Secret Society". We give two academic definitions in the article... and if we are to adhere to these definitions, we would not include groups like the Tongs or Red Turbans (as they do not fit those definitions). Yet, I thing most people would agree that groups like the Tongs should be considered "Secret Societies". So what we need is another definition that would include them. Blueboar (talk) 15:02, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Secret Societies lists several definitions, and I would use this broader one.

A third definition comes from the online Encyclopedia Britannica, to the effect that a secret society is "any of various oath-bound societies devoted to brotherhood (or sisterhood), moral discipline, and mutual assistance. Such societies usually conduct rituals of initiation to instruct new members in the rules of the group (see rite of passage). Greek and Roman mystery religions had their secular counterparts in clandestine social clubs, some of which served as platforms for political dissent. In West Africa secret societies such as Poro (for men) and Sande (for women) serve to translate slight advantages of wealth and prestige into political authority. In parts of New Guinea secret men's societies serve as repositories of tribal knowledge. Fraternal orders such as the Freemasons (see Freemasonry) may be considered secret societies, as may criminal groups such as the Mafia and the Chinese Triads and hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan." This definition contains as its primary objective identifiers "oath-bound societies devoted to moral brotherhood (or sisterhood), moral discipline and mutual assistance", and specifically identifies several such societies.

--NickDupree (talk) 18:31, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Mannerbund

Why delete the archaeo-historico-anthropological insight afforded by the reference to Mannerbund? "Mannerbund" itself refers to THIS VERY PAGE. What is the issue here, please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk) 02:06, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I'm not involved in this budding revert war, but please understand that insertion of such claims in a Wikipedia article requires an inline citation from a reliable source, meaning a reputable external source (citing Wikipedia itself is WP:CIRCULAR and doesn't count). Also be sure to read the When you must use inline citations policy. And please don't get discouraged, stick around and improve Secret society, it desperately needs help. Just be sure and cite your sources! --NickDupree (talk) 04:32, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Citations for mannerbunde and their historical role in male secret societies? Coming up... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk) 09:25, 30 July 2011 (UTC)