Talk:Sorbet

turkish

the turkish word is şerbet .

Google hits

    677,000 for "sorbet"
     50,800 for "sorbetto"
        540 for "sorbeto"

Merge

Sorbeto has been merged and redirected to "sorbet". --Viriditas | Talk 13:50, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A few words in Turkish

I would like to mention the following. I think the Turkish word for sorbet is Şerbet and not şerbat. Also I'm not sure the word originates from Arabic. I looked at my larousse encyclopedia and it says it comes from Turkish and not Arabic.

What other meanings does the word have in Turkish? This word comes from the Arabic root sh-r-b which indicates something that has to do with drinking, etc. There are many words in Arabic that use this root: shuroba (soup), ashrab (to drink), sharab (drink (n.)), etc. etc. The origin of this word is undoubtedly Arabic, which brings me to my next point... The supposed Persian origin of the word seems to be a 20th century Farsi word for this same substance, but may have roots in the Arabic word. I'm removing it until it's proven that the Arabic word derived from the Farsi. :)

Popular culture

Does the section Sorbet in Popular Culture add anything? Bigturtle 20:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

• I’m rather saddened that you have removed my section about “Sorbets in Popular Culture”. I thought that it was an interesting juxtaposition between low culture and gourmet food. It also provides an insight into how food stuffs that were once the preserve of the rich became incorporated into the popular diet. I will await further comments before re-posting the section. Regained 13:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Courses

Given the problems with the various different and clashing names used for meal courses in the English speaking world, might it be better to replace the text about entrées, and starters with just a simple "between courses"? This might make it more accurate, as I've certainly been to a 5-course meal where the sorbet was between the fish and meat courses.

Italian

I am living in Italy (I am from it.wiki, as you can see from my italian user page) and honestly I don't agree with the sentence: Italians often refer to Sherbet as gelato, and the two terms are often used interchangeably in the United States. I think the part concerning Italians should be removed as it's not true. Daphoenyx 01:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Also this description contradicts the page on gelato. 69.109.165.100 05:20, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I live in the states, and I've never heard Sorbet used to mean Gelato. Gelato in my area is used to refer to the expensive imported Italian ice creams that are generally very delicious. As I recall, Sorbet/Sherbet (interesting point: in the US we often mispronounce it as Sherbert) is made of fruit juices unlike ice cream. 70.137.149.233 00:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Sherbet/sorbet articles merged

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Article "Sorbet" merged into article "Sherbet (U.S.)". Now article "Sorbet" redirects to article "Sherbet (U.S.)"; other language links added.87.168.74.187 20:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

That was a mistake IMO - it would have been better to use Sorbet. It's an unambiguous term which avoids confusion with Sherbet - and is the only name used in the UK at least, since in the UK Sherbet = Sherbet, and never the frozen dessert. Conversely it seems that Sorbet is at least understood in the US, even if Sherbet (U.S.) is used more commonly there. FlagSteward 17:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

Sherbet (U.S.) → Sorbet — Unregistered user merged Sherbet (U.S.) and Sorbet into Sherbet (U.S.) - this is a global product, the name Sorbet is used globally, and avoids confusion with the fizzy powder —FlagSteward 17:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose Sorbet and sherbet are not fully synonymous in American English, and sherbet is the common name. Already disambiguated, and, given the (apparently complete) national differentiation, it should stay dabbed. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose. And reverse merge too. Agree with Septentrionalis. Legal definitions don't define real language. Rmhermen 18:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support - for the removal of the brackets Reginmund 19:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support - While WP:ENGVAR calls for status quo, in this case I'd urge American wikipedians for a "concession" (I'm lazy to look which page is older). The chosen disambiguator is plain ugly, and creates a false impression that it's a uniquely American product, while it's not. I don't know which page came first, but moving it to more international name would greatly help to reduce confusion. Duja► 14:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support - I know what sorbet is, and I know what sherbet is (and what sherbert is), and hated both words as a kid, because I saw both equally in the freezer aisle of the grocery store, and thought they were two completely different things for the longest time. The current title (Sherbet (U.S.)) confused me too -- foods have country qualifiers? This title makes it seem like Sherbet should be a location, or person, or something, anything but food. I'd say move the dessert to Sorbet, make sure there's a hatnote at Sherbet to direct (possibly) confused Americans to the right page, and it should fix both problems. -Bbik^★ 16:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support My Oxford Concise says that that sorbet is "flavoured water-ice", while it calls sherbet an an "Eastern cooling drink of diluted fruit juices", and says they are synonyms. FWIW, I've heard and read about "sorbet" much more often than "sherbet", and google seems to concur, 4.15M hits vs 1.74M. --Victor falk 20:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
• Support In North America sherbet is just a sorbet made with milk, it's a special instance of a sorbet.

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Having entered the un-lazy mode, article Sorbet dates from November 2003, while this one was created as a split from Sherbet on May 2006. Duja► 15:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sherbet (US) contains milk or milkfat while Sorbet does not

This article and/or the merge are inaccurate, as "Sherbet" in America contains milk or milkfat, while "Sorbet" is a non-dairy product. Yermo (talk) 02:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I think I agree if that is correct. To me the article has become confusing (FDA classification is meaningless to the rest of the world) as it would apprear US Sherbet contains dairy where as in the rest of the world Sorbet does not.

In this instance whether the US understanding of Sherbet should have it's own article may be a valid point if there are some core differences between US Sherbet and Sorbet (i.e dairy).

I have some questions for US editors.

1) What do you generally call a frozen dessert made from sweetened water flavored with iced fruit (typically juice or puree), chocolate, wine, and/or liqueur which DOESN'T contain any dairy (milk, milk fat, cream etc etc)?

2) What do you generally call the above when it DOES contain dairy?

For the majority of the world Sorbet does not contain any dairy and it is the absense of dairy which is the definitive difference between Sorbet and Icecream.

I think a headed classification section for the US and a seperate one for the rest of the world would be helpful and clear this up if both are to remain on the same article GQsm ^{Talk | c} 21:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

• This article caused a minor stir in my office today, because sorbet and sherbe[r]t are definitely not the same thing. Sherbert, as everyone I've ever heard talking about it calls it, is always dairy, and is generally considered a type of ice cream. I just went and looked at the ingredients on a tub of Edy's Berry Rainbow Sherbet in the freezer, and the first thing in the list is "Skim milk". It's delicious. :-) It is also not sorbet. In response to GQsm's questions:
  1. Generally such things are not eaten, but when they are, they're usually called things like "frozen puréed apricots" or whatever. Some people will call this a sorbet. Others call it a slurpee.
  2. We call this ice cream. The difference between ice cream and sherbert is that the sherbert is "lighter", generally softer it seems, and definitely fruitier.

Reporting live from Eau Claire, this has been Tomer^talk 23:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Removed promotional link

The external link to Dolcefine, a sorbet wholesaler, is inappropriate here. Maybe if it were in the context of a list of the top five sorbet companies in the US/World, etc, but even then it would still be unencyclopedic. Eeblet (talk) 01:30, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Future developments

This section looks both in breach of NPOV and WP:CRYSTAL.Autarch (talk) 10:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

'Sherbet' (the unique US dairy product) needs its own page

It's a unique frozen dessert. I'm sorry if you disapprove of its origins, or think it's merely bastardized 'sorbet' (or a bastardized use of the term 'sorbet,' or an incorrect use of the British 'sherbet'). The fact is, 'sherbet' (as the term is used in the US) is a unique frozen dessert (i.e., a "light" form of ice cream with a bit of tartness, a unique texture [likely due to the addition of gelatin, or similar product, mentioned by the Encyclopedia Britannica entry, below] and almost always in fruit flavors - I'm saddened and amazed that the classic/quintessential "orange sherbe(r)t" and even "rainbow sherbe(r)t" aren't mentioned ANYWHERE on Wikipedia, even as brief mentions in any article) that deserves its own page. (As, of course, 'sorbet' and British 'sherbet' do, with cross references to the American sherbet page, as appropriate.) I'm getting the sense these days that to a lot of non-US (and even a lot of US) Wikipedia editors, anything culturally American is so evil and repugnant that its very acknowledgement must be quashed/suppressed.

I agree. Sherbet is not Sorbet. If Sherbet had its own page and was merged into this one, I have to call into question the integrity of the editor who did that, and the administrators who upheld it. -Artificial Silence (talk) 07:25, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

In the US, we also have 'sorbet,' of course (which is a non-dairy product), and, obviously, ice cream (with varying amounts of cream/milkfat).

I STRONGLY suggest that the merge be reversed. What is wrong with plain 'Sherbet' for the British beverage (yes, with Persian origins), and 'Sherbet (US)' for the frozen dessert? Add a disambiguation page if necessary. Our primary goal here is ACCURACY, not giving some British Wikipedia editors some psychopathological feeling of power over 'American cultural imperialism.'

Also, FYI - the online Encyclopedia Britannica has an entry for American sherbet. Here it is:

"Sherbet (frozen dessert): frozen dessert usually flavoured with fruit, made from water, sugar, flavourings, and milk or cream. Egg white or gelatin may be added to ensure a fine texture. Sherbets may also be flavoured with wine or liqueurs. By U.S. federal regulation, sherbets must contain a minimum of 1 percent and a maximum of 2 percent butterfat. Water ice, called in French sorbet and in Italian granita, is similar to sherbet but contains no dairy ingredients."

I'm afraid that the authoritativeness of Wikipedia is being ever more frequently called into question, and this issue is just one of many thousands of recent examples. Seethaki (talk) 17:12, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree Sherbet is not a type of Sorbet. Sorbet, as the article defines, is made ONLY with sweetened water and fruit while Sherbet has additional ingredients.Sir Robert "Brightgalrs" Schultz de Plainsboro (talk) 03:21, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the above posts and made the differentiation page 'sherbert' quite a bit more explicit. I even added a couple sources to prove we're not crazy for wanting to be able to find information on this popular treat. Many a hot summer day in my youth were made bearable by enjoying some orange or rainbow sherbert (and I've NEVER heard it called 'sherbet', 'sorbet', or 'ice cream'.. not even to this day. People who grew up in America with sherbert know what it is and how to pronounce it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.168.44.192 (talk) 19:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, completely, with all the sentiments expressed here. Sherbet is a unique (and very popular) product in the United States and Canada, and ought to be designated as such. For God's sake, the instances of sherbet lemon in Harry Potter had me convinced Dumbledore was an ice-cream lover, until I saw the hack job that the wiki has apparently done at "disambiguating" these terms. --SchutteGod (talk) 01:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with this sentiment as well, it seems to me like the significance and uniqueness of the American sherbe(r)t is not being considered, either because of neglect or maybe someone's snobbery. In any case, it definitely deserves ITS OWN article. -zepimpja — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.106.46.23 (talk) 01:11, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Etimology

The origin of the food can not be identified geographically but it is present in the ancient Mediterranean. And it is certainly the ancestor of the ice cream.

Some people use the milk/yoghurt as the Byzantines, Arabs, Turks (and Romans, Greeks and Persians before them). Others use only alcohol and wine as the Venetians. To see Sgroppin /Sgroppino. Others use a mixture of various things or with various syrups, alcoholic and non. The use of sugar is typical only of the western confectionery. Eastern confectionery used the honey.

Regarding the origin of word isn’t Arab. The latin SORBERE (verb) that come from and indo-european root that exist natively in Greek and I think in also in Persian language. In latin as in the italian word SORBIRE(substantive SORBETTO) It means a mix drink/eat. The Arabs take the word from Byzantine or from Sassanid Empire when they arrived from the desert of the Arabic peninsula.

However mix ice and milk or alcohol is typical of all cultures of the mountain pasture surely in Mediterranean world that I know and I think also in other parts. Probably also Oetzi knew the Sorbet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.77.239 (talk) 11:25, 21 August 2011 (UTC)