Talk:Southern and Northern Dynasties

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The term should be plural as found in serach on google and numerous historical texts. Ktsquare

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Should be Southern and Northern Dynasties, Southern Dynasties are before Northern Dynasties.--[[User:Zy26|zy26 (Talk)]] 08:19, 2004 Sep 20 (UTC)

I just added two new sections, the Northern Dynasties and the Southern Dynasties, so this article is a stub no more. :)

--PericlesofAthens 04:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Why no map?

This article needs a map. John D. Croft 03:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Ask, and ye shall receive. Three years later, true, but still... Map added.  White Whirlwind  咨  15:09, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

southern dynasties are longer than the Qin Dynasty

I can't believe it! The Qin Dynasty gets it own article while the Southern Dynasties of the Southern and Northern Dynasties still are combined. All the Southern Dynasties have like more than 30 years of ruling or something, (some, even 50), while the Qin Dynasty ruled for only 15 years!!!! 24.1.201.172 (talk) 02:26, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

That's not really the point - the Qin receives such a greater share of attention because of its historical significance and uniqueness, not because of its length. What the above user is suggesting is akin to grading the importance of peoples' lives by how long they live, not what they accomplish while living.  White Whirlwind  咨  00:39, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Translating the Chinese Article to add more material

I'm planning to translate the Chinese Article to add more material to this article. If anyone wishes to help check my translation, or to help translate sections, that'd be cool. DemonicInfluence (talk) 18:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Good! I intended to do it once upon a time, but it seemed a bit dull and I moved on to other pages. I would be happy to proofread or help out by doing a few sections - maybe the History and Culture sections.  White Whirlwind  咨  00:37, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll probably work from the top down on translating it by section, working first on the dynastic histories of both the north ans the south. DemonicInfluence (talk) 01:52, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Good job so far. Let's finish up the text now. There's on issue I wanted to ask you about, DemonicInfluence, and it's the poem you've included in the "Liu Song" section. It's an accurate translation - I'm assuming you've done it yourself, here - but I have always been hesitant to translate actual poetry like that because I feel it violates Wikipedia:No original research. Now, it's a little gray, because their original authorship is rarely cited and they're thrown in Chinese in weird places, but I have never felt comfortable including my own translations of those sorts of poems for the above-mentioned WP:OR reason. Let me know what you think. Also, your translation doesn't rhyme - most translators don't do it because, I think, they feel it's too much work. The Chinese originals rhyme, and I make sure my translations do too.

I feel like that falls under verifiability of non-English sources. I included it because it seemed like an interesting ballad. Maybe my Chinese skills are lacking, but it doesn't seem to be an obvious rhyme to me. Perhaps that is slant rhyme (though I'm not sure if they use it in Chinese).DemonicInfluence (talk)

Ok, I looked at verifiability of non-English sources, and I think that's ok for this article. With regard to the rhyme, your Chinese skills are lacking, I guess. Don't make the mistake of reading poetry - and Classical Chinese in general - in Mandarin: it hasn't preserved most Middle Chinese and earlier rhymes.

For example, look at your poem's end rhymes in Cantonese:

城 sing

萦 ying

- Can't remember, this one's the off-rhyme line, anyway -

兄 hing

And that's all it takes. You can easily cheat and just read them in Cantonese or Min to check the rhyme, you don't have to get out a book of MC or Old Chinese reconstructions, though that's often fun if you're into that sort of thing. The bottom line is, Chinese poetry very rarely doesn't rhyme.  White Whirlwind  咨  01:58, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick lesson. I knew about the sound change, but it didn't click in my mind as I read your comments. Sadly I don't know Min or Cantonese, so I can't use that trick. But I'll try to keep that in mind for the future, and I added a note in the article.DemonicInfluence (talk) 02:29, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Also, some of the map PNG's will need to be translated, as well.  White Whirlwind  咨  22:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not so good at graphics =/, I'll see what can be done about that, though it will take priority after the article body. DemonicInfluence (talk) 23:16, 29 August 2011 (UTC)