Talk:Spring (season)

WikiProject Time assessment rating comment

Want to help write or improve articles about Time? Join WikiProject Time or visit the Time Portal for a list of articles that need improving.
—Yamara ✉ 09:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

spring in the southern hemisphere, in australia and New zealand is actually recognised as starting on the 1st September, not the 21st.

Spring shouldn't be capitalized, hi! just like the other seasons aren't capitalized.

I was taught that all four seasons should be capitalised as proper nouns, but I agree that the current fashion is to treat the seasons as common nouns. Dbfirs 18:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

U.S. bias and useless content

Some of the content is written from a U.S. POV, and in some it's not even clear whether that's the case (which is far worse).

Hot weather can occur during winter time, even shortly after boiling freakin hot weather. ... There is also a risk of ebola if it is cold and it turns abnormally hot like it often does in December and May.

Where? I'm sure this is the case even in the U.S.A. as a whole. Then also, of course you risk hypothermia if you are dressed for hot weather and it suddenly turns cold, but that's hardly news, and certainly not a special feature of spring. Nathan Forrest usually drives his moped this time of the year. But he is now moving to a foreign country to eat chinnese rice.

I suggest that people with direct experience of this separate the content between summer in general and spring in the United States, and make a subsection of the latter. If nobody opposes I can make some of the changes myself. The "cold weather" paragraph is pretty much useless, but I wouldn't delete it outright without hearing opinions over here. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:53, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Spring is synonymous with baseball season? Tom Cruse. This probaly won't help but i saw mrs. gilbert eating pie. Herenthere (Talk) 23:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

"As in summer, the axis of the Earth is tilted toward the Sun and the length of daylight rapidly increases in the northern hemisphere. The northern hemisphere begins to warm significantly causing new plant growth to "spring forth," - Spring is not solely restricted to the Northern Hemisphere. Is there a need to mention the northern hemisphere specifically? --Aarondoyle (talk) 02:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Move to main article space

This article should be moved to Iraq as it's far and away the most common use of the term, similar to how Summer, Autumn and Winter all have the main article name instead of (season). DreamGuy 23:01, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

---

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support. This is the most common meaning of the word. Georgia guy 23:10, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose. Any evidence for the "most common meaning"? (Please no Google results -- I'll get every college course catalogue in the English-speaking world). If it is the most common, its a plurality not a majority. The other two major meanings are very common and important ones that do not derive from the season (all three derive from the verb). The other seasons don't have the "(season)" tag because they don't have significant other meanings. LuiKhuntek 08:29, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. To me spring (a coiled object) and Spring (the season) are neck-and-neck, while the other meanings for this name are not far behind. Marco79 17:25, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. This usage of spring is probably the most common, but not overwhelmingly so. Also, notice of this move request should have been placed on Talk:Spring as well, since that page would have to be moved as well. — Knowledge Seeker দ 06:41, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. Coiled object is roughly as common as the season. --Joveblue 14:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

I've reverted the Spring to Spring (disambiguation) move for two reasons:

1. Now that this discussion is opened it should be allowed to finish with the article structure in its original form
2. There should've been a disambig notice at the top of this article as it broke various incoming links and made finding the other articles difficult

This is not a vote on the move itself. violet/riga (t) 23:25, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

There was no consensus to move. the wub "?!" 23:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)we are have fun with the world did you no

Disambiguation

For a while, Spring redirected to Spring (season) because someone moved the disambiguation page that was at Spring to Spring (disambiguation). However, you are not supposed to redirect the undisambiguated name (Spring) to a disambiguated name (Spring (season)). Instead, the article that is being redirected to (Spring (season) in this case) should either be moved to the undisambiguated name (Spring), or the undisambiguated name should be a disambiguation page. I was not about to move this article without discussion, especially since a requested move (Spring (season) to Spring) failed in December 2005, so I reverted the move of the disambiguation page, which is now at Spring. Hopefully, you are able to follow that bafta vife.

If you want, you can put a link to the disambiguation page at the top of this article, but I believe it is unnecessary (and is against the guideline, last time I checked). No one is going to search for "Spring (season)" (without or without parentheses) and be looking for anything else except this article. Also, no one is going to link to "Spring (season)" and mean something else. If someone searches for "Spring", they'll go to the disambiguation page and if someone follows a link of "Spring" they will go to the disambiguation page. Therefore, a disambiguation notice is unnecessary. -- Kjkolb 13:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Dates of Seasons

In my opinion the commonly held view that eg 'spring starts on March 21st' is in fact completely fallacious and scientifically wrong.

For the Northern hemisphere -

Mid Summer's Day, the Summer Solstice, when the sun rises to its highest point at noon on approximately June 21st, is undoubtably MID summer. Likewise Mid Winter's Day, the Winter Solstice, when the sun rises to its lowest point at noon on approximately December 21st, is undoubtably MID winter. There being four equal seasons, halfway between these dates will be MID spring and MID autumn. So the Vernal Equinox, approximately March 21st, is MID spring, not the start of spring; and likewise the Autumn Equinox, approximately September 21st, is MID autumn, not the beginning of autumn.

The seasons being three months each, the start of spring is therefore one and a half months before mid spring (the Vernal Equinox), or approximately February 4th; and the start of summer May 4th; the start of autumn August 4th; and the start of winter November 4th.

I know this is unpalatable to the majority of the population, but that doesn't make it wrong!

194.106.37.41 20:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree entirely. It cannot be the case that summer does not start at the longest day of the year and get therafter the days get continually shorter. This also tallies with what has been the common perception of anglophone Europe as long as i've been alive. i.e Spring is Feb, March, Aptil. More ref.s needed though. Boldymumbles 10:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't quite agree. The daytime temperatures lag behind insolation by several weeks, as the atmosphere has a certain thermal latency. Since most natural phenomena that indicate spring (such as flowers blossoming) are dependent on the temperature, they also are delayed. This is why the first signs of spring occur around 1 March and not three weeks earlier. The same argument holds for all seasons, for instance, fall sets in only around the beginning of September, because it takes the atmosphere several weeks to cool off as insolation decreases. --87.178.15.174 (talk) 14:07, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

from September 20 or 21 to December 20 or 21 for the Southern hemisphere. Not really, in Australia, Spring starts on the 1st of September, and finishes on the 30th of November. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.215.205 (talk) 12:28, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Spring in Ireland follows the Celtic calendar - it starts on the 1st of February. Summer then follows on 1st of May. E.g. see Irish_calendar. Barry Kelly (talk) 10:09, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

So does everyone agree that the article is wrong in stating the "astronomical" definition. Is it not the case that the vernal equinox is the middle of Spring from an astronomical viewpoint (i.e. ignoring the temperature lag on Earth) just as the summer solstice is theoretically the middle of Summer. Do we have to have the misconception about the "first day of Spring" stated in the article as if it were a fact? I suggest the following: "Some people believe that the vernal equinox is the first day of Spring, but, from an astronomical point of view, it ought to be the middle of Spring. However, the temperature lag on the surface of the Earth delays Spring by a variable number of days in many regions." What does anyone think? Dbfirs 18:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think scientific meteorologists would claim that each season lasts about three months. Speaking out of local definitions of seasons, that might be broadly true for a large part of the temperate belts (which happen to be where the majority of wikipedians live) but it's blatantly not true if you try to come up with definitions of the seasons that go by absolute mean temperature over, let's say, a week, without adjusting the "limit temperatures" for which country it is. In some countries of Northern and Central Europe, spring is counted as starting when the mean temperature (of a 24 h day/night unit) has been above freezing point for seven days continuously, and winter counts as the time when the mean temperature over time is below freezing point. By that count, winter lasts five months or more in large parts of Scandinavia and inland Eastern Europe, and doesn't even happen most years in Italy, Greece or Texas.

Now, of course Italians and even Floridians and Brazilians talk of winter, but it's nothing to do with any universal definition framed through meterorology, If such universal definitions of winter, spring, summer and autumn exist, as I'm sure they do, they should be referred to clearly in the season articles but set apart from any local definitions, even those used by tv weathermen.Strausszek (talk) 17:43, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the concept varies according to region, and there is no universal definition (except the phenological one that varies from year to year), so we need to include as many variations as we can find references for. I would have thought that Italian meteorologists define spring as (maybe part of February +) March, April & May, and I know that Floridian meteorologists talk of it starting in February. Can you find a reference for the week's average temperature above freezing? I haven't seen that one before. Dbfirs 18:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

It's how it's long been defined in Sweden and I think it's an imported definition, so it may have been set out first in Germany or some other place. I can easily source it from Swedish newspapers and textbooks (in the local language), but finding out exactly which countries run the same definitions - or other - is going to be a bit harder. I would guess Russia might use the same ones because their climate has some similarities to Sweden and Eastern Europe, only with deeper swings and sometimes hotter in summer, and there's a scientistic streak in how they treat weather. - I just heard the other day that Scania, southernmost Sweden, where I live, has entered spring after an unusually snow rich winter which is still holding most of the country by tte throat. There are still big banks of ice and snow by roadsides, city squares and on parking lots and lawns here though, and lakes and canals are covered with ice: no one would have called it spring in the UK. Strausszek (talk) 18:59, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there was still snow covering my lawn, and one local road was still blocked with snow on March 1st (the first day of spring) where I live in the UK, but it was still a beautiful spring day, even if the temperature didn't get above freezing in the shade. (Perhaps I have Celtic blood in my veins because I judge seasons by the sunlight.) Can you find a published translation into English of the Swedish definition of spring? I think we ought to include it, but it would be better for the English Wikipedia if we can find a reference in English. Dbfirs 08:40, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

In the UK the vernal equinox was long accepted as the first day of spring and the summer solsitice as teh first day of summer for meteorological comparison purposes. This does create a long cool tail to summer and a questionable extension of spring right into "flaming June", although a good summer can linger until October in the UK (an 'Indian Summer'). More recently there was a deliberate decision to change formally to the months March, April May for Spring - but, of course, as the seasons are defined by weather (not climate) they actually happen at differnet times and last for different lengths each year. There is 'theoretical season' and the true season, just as solar time and UTC may not match up. In recent years in the UK the seasons seem to be shifting to shorter, earlier springs, long summers staring early and hot with a long, damp, but not particularly cool tail, late autumns (the period of leaf fall) shifted back so they last well into December and a short, often hard, winter that really kicks in around the winter solstice. The net result is that only Autumn and Winter start near the solstice/equinox days and the lengths of the seasons vary from barely two to nearly five months. In practice, the months in the article make sense for statistical comparisons, but we need to re-awaken ourselves to the reality that the seasons define themselves. The Yowser (talk) 12:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that weather seldom follows our artificial constructs. I never understood the idea of "first day of summer" being June 21st, since "midsummer" was three days later! In recent years, the summer solstice seems to have been the start of the "wet" season where I live, with the hottest sunshine being much earlier in April and May. We often get frosts at the start of September, and I recall that the end of last August certainly felt like autumn, so I disagree with your suggestion that autumn is delayed until the equinox, though if you live in southern England then this may be more realistic. I think we just have to admit that the seasons cannot be "defined" as some people might wish. We are hoping for a real summer this year, whenever it starts. Dbfirs 09:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Unclosed quote

The article starts with a quote from Merriam-Webster, but there is no closing quote mark to show where the quote ends. Is the entire article taken from Merriam-Webster? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.224.1.14 (talk) 09:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary states that spring comprises...

Can someone please fix this? "The Merriam-Webster Dictionary states..." is right out of a 5th grade essay. Kingturtle (talk) 16:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Nowruz

Nowruz is actually a shaman tradition, not an Iranian tradition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Futsukayoi (talk • contribs) 18:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

It also is taking up an inordinate amount of space. Why mention Nowruz, but not other interpretations of the season around the world? I'm removing the section. 207.140.171.128 (talk) 18:32, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

April 14

Spring begins on APRIL 14 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.198.5.69 (talk) 22:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Spring in the United States

Decades-long local weatherman Dick Goddard has stated most years that spring starts in the Everglades in early February and moves 15 miles north every day (he just mentioned this again earlier this week). Anyone heard of that? Perhaps his source is one of his former professors from meteorology school. Mapsax (talk) 21:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

A year later, he added a source: the author of a book. I just did some searching, and discovered that it was probably North with the Spring (1951; 1990 printing ISBN 0312044577) by Edwin Way Teale. This 1953 article ("Spring Takes The Truck Route") in the Daytona Beach Morning Journal confirms it. So is it worth mentioning in the article, or is it too folklorish? Mapsax (talk) 21:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps it would help to reduce the unshakable conviction of many people that Spring begins on March 21st everywhere in the northern hemisphere (or even the whole world according to a few!) Dbfirs 13:02, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Holidays

What about Passover? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.238.20.183 (talk) 11:38, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Image

The image labeled as Apple Blossoms in the gallery at the bottom, I think this is a Japanese Magnolia (Magnolia liliiflora) not an apple tree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.244.58.182 (talk) 06:38, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

First day of spring

Following on from the discussion above about "Dates of Seasons", I've edited the definition section to give less prominence to the disputed claim that March 21st is the "First day of spring". I've tried to maintain NPoV, but please adjust as you think necessary. Our article on Vernal equinox gives some useful detail. Dbfirs 17:50, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, it seems to come down to whether your criterion is daylight or temperature - it seems midsummer's day is defined by daylight (the longest work available in the fields) and spring by temperature (the first growth of crops) - it is unfortunate there is a lag between the two which makes for an inconsistent definition between seasons. I prefer something fixed and predictable to something variable and unpredictable!

81.100.161.66 (talk) 22:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

... even if it's wrong for most of the world? Dbfirs 23:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Holidays?

Why is so much or the article devoted to holidays? There should be more about the actual season.

Also, more pictures would be nice. NS Zakeruga (talk) 21:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Regarding holidays, you are correct. The holidays do not celebrate the season of spring in any way at all. Easter and Yom Kippur are religious festivals, Rosh Hashanna starts a new year and Earth Day celebrates the environment. Nothing to do with spring. I am removing the holidays bit from the intro, where it is irrelevant overkill in the extreme. Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 03:05, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. (I missed that bit in the intro, or I would have removed it myself). I think the section on celebrations during the season is useful as a final section because many people associate these festivals with spring, but we should have more about the season itself first. Dbfirs 06:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Is there "Spring" in all parts of the world?

Is there Sprinmg (also other seasons) in all parts of the planet. The Sahara Desert does it have a Spring Per se?GRECOROMA (talk) 23:03, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Not for all the planet, and definitely not near the equator. The four traditional seasons are not really valid between the tropics or inside the polar circles, though the meaning can be extended part-way into these regions. Spring is properly defined only for temperate latitudes. Some of the Sahara desert is north of the Tropic of Cancer, so has a conventional spring in terms of temperature, though not rainfall. Dbfirs 21:55, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

moana iis sooo awesome 4sum xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox i ♥ snow —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.89.172.205 (talk) 01:03, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Tupi-Guarani

This paragraph is interesting, but it is not about the subject of the article. Cold we move it to an article on early calendars? I even have doubts about whether it really is a calendar, because quarter days are not consistent with daylight. I suspect that they really added a day roughly every four years. Can someone who can read the references please check? Dbfirs 08:07, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

A Proper Representation of the Foul Transition That Is Spring

Not all of spring is beautiful for much of the world. Countries that see snow are familiar with a brief and rank transition that comprises a meltdown, which leaves the ground soggy and exposes the vegetation from which winter has sucked life. Pictures of this, please. :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tracey treacy (talk • contribs) 17:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

You people are morons.

Spring is February, March, April. Summer is May, June, July. Autumn is August, September, October Winter is November, December, January.

This is based on the solstice, the equinox and common sense.

Nobody cares when America has decided to deem as the months of the season. The majority of the Northern hemisphere does not comply with American garbage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.165.125 (talk) 23:04, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

This all depends on whom you ask. The idea of seasons starting at the equinox or solstice sounds silly to me, too, but it is common to hear it quoted in the UK, and even more common in America, much of which has a longer temperature lag. It makes sense in areas where the seasonal lag is about half a season (six or seven weeks). The months that you quote are one month out from those agreed by most meteorologists, but they are equally arbitrary. As far as I know, the equinox and solstice basis is rejected completely in the southern hemisphere where seasonal lags are shorter. (and where the seasons are the reverse of the meteorological months, of course). Are you Irish? Your definition closely matches that of the Celts. Dbfirs 08:30, 4 February 2012 (UTC)