Talk:Steamboat

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Early comments

I listed Steamboat, Steamship, and Paddle steamer, as well as the redirect Steamer on the Wikipedia:Duplicate articles page. I think that the first 2 terms are interchangeable based on the "What links here" lists, and although paddle steamer is ok as a separate article, there's some overlap with what's in the other 2 articles. I think there shd be only steamboat or steamship but not both. But I'm not a ship-boat expert, so I'm not going to decide or attempt to merge the text appropriately. Elf | Talk 05:25, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I agree with you that Paddle steamer should definitely be retained as a separate article. -- Decumanus 05:29, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I don't really like that "steamship" redirects here - a 15,000 ton vessel is just not ever a "boat", and the content is so entirely focussed on small vessels that it kind of looks like a mistaken link. However, there's no point in tinkering without some kind of shared understanding about the division. Alternatively, both could redir to "steam-powered vessel" or something similarly unlovely. Stan 06:54, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I was the one who did the steamship/steamboat merge. I kept the steamboat page and redirected steamship as steamboat was then the more complete page. There's a fair bit about the big boats in the lower half of the page. Perhaps some heading would help... Zeimusu 01:35, 2004 Jul 7 (UTC)

nowhere here for seagoing steamers.. edit ocean steamship title? Also, how about lake and loch steamers - SS Sir Walter Scott still going, PS Maid of the Loch under restoration. I changed the SS Explorer to trawler, as the last of the clyde sludge boats is now operating cruises (out of southhamption?), but can't remeber her name (Gardyloo?). Also note that nuke subs are steam turbine boats, albeit with nuke heating ystems - dave souza 10:10, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I suggest that a distinction could be made between sea-going and ocean-going steamers. Sea-going would relate to European vessesls as a first stage and ocean-going for those in the next stage. The change-over would be when the first Cunarder began her operation on the Transatlantic service.OMINOREG (talk) 15:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC) It would be interesting to have an illustration of one of the last Atlantic steamers fitted with auxiliary sails.

Steamboat Austria disaster

I found this new article. I don't know if it should be merged with this one, or just linked. I don't really know, I'm new here. G Clark 01:14, 2005 August 14 (UTC)

Steamer classes

While I'm not uninterested in oceangoing types, shouldn't paddle steamer include river & lake types? For instance, Walk in the Water, on the Buffalo-Detroit route, first steamer on the Great Lakes. Trekphiler 12:10, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

As in Steamboat#River steamboats and Steamboat#Lake, loch, estuary and sea-going steamers ? ...dave souza 00:54, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

No Merge

While it may initially seem like a good idea to merge the two topics together, I think that a person who has no knowledge of steamboats in the first place would probably want a general base of knowledge, which the "steamboat" article provides. The other one is a bit more specific, and I would only go there if I knew something about steamboats already. Besides, not all paddle steamers are steamboats. Instead, I would recommend a section on paddle steamers in this article, but then a link to the separate article for people seeking more details.

What about steam launches?

For Steam Yachts see C. Dawson (August 2006). "Thomas Assheton Smith's Steam Yachts". The Mariners Mirror 92 (3): p. 331. Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam yacht". —Preceding unsigned comment added by OMINOREG (talk • contribs) 15:21, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

There are hundreds of small steam-powered boats, mostly built by their owners, used for pleasure boating.... The Steam Boat Association of Great Britain in the External Links section deals with these... should this page mention this activity?

- Bart (who owns such a small steamboat)...

great idea, please add such a section. ...dave souza 00:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Unpopular merge

The proposed merger with paddle steamers looks pretty stale, with no consensus to merge, so I propose removing the tags.....dave souza 00:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

• I secound that. Also, a lot of images in this article features paddlers. Suggest some images is replaced by images of other types of steam boats. tsaetre

removed as discussed. ..dave souza, talk 00:38, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Who's on first?

While I don't want to reopen the Sirius/Savannah debate, I do question "Great Western was the first purpose-built steamship to initiate regularly scheduled trans-Atlantic crossings, starting in 1838." I've always heard Cunard's Britannia began this service 4 July 1840. Trekphiler 02:57 & 03:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC) (BTW, if anyone cares, Samson V was last sternwheeler built in Canada.)

Delphine

this diff seems a bit promotionaly to me. Greyrover (talk · contribs · count · logs · page moves · block log)'s only two contributions are to link to this ship here and at steam engine. I would not go so far as to say linkspam but it does seem off. I think I will revert it from steam engine. ++Lar: t/c 01:21, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Steamships/steamboats under sail?

The article never talks about steamships/steamboats under sail. So I'd like to start out with the question "What is the right term for them?" (partly because I'd like to introduce their own category on the Commons)... and then ask anyone who may have more knowledge to include them in the article. Thanks, Ibn Battuta (talk) 18:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC) The first steamboats generally fitted sail, even if it was only a simple square sail, because the early steam engines were unreliable. There was no special term for them: the earliest were most often called steam packets, packet being the word previously used for the sailing packets. I have even seen the old term barge used for those plying on East Englian waters of England. Even the large transatlantic steamers fitted sail. It seemed odd that “Élise” appeared under North America, so I have erased that there and placed a new item where I think it should appear, with special care in quoting the correct dates. She was ex. "Marjorie" or "Margery" and had the distinction of being the first steamboat to cross the English Channel, in April 1816, having previously plied down from the East coast of Scotland. Probably the first sea-going steamboat was p.s. "Thames", ex "Argyle", which plied the route from Glasgow on 22 May 1815 to London via Lands End. (Fred Hawks, World Ship Society CD, Issue 2, 2010.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by OMINOREG (talk • contribs) 18:13, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I suggest that catamaran be removed and replaced in a separate article on the catamaran, since the catamaran is not necessarily a double-hulled vessel.85.230.205.134 (talk) 09:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Removed text

The following line was added in good faith to the lede; however, it does not belong there and I cannot easily fit it in elsewhere...

Steam boats provided faster water transpertation during the US period of expansion.

Ideas? -- EdJogg (talk) 23:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Text moved from article

The first steamboats generally fitted sail, even if it was only a simple square sail, because the early steam engines were unreliable. There was no special term for them: the earliest were most often called steam packets, packet being the word previously used for the sailing packets. I have even seen the old term barge used for those plying on East Englian waters of England. It seemed odd that “Élise” appeared under North America, so I have erased that there and placed a new item where I think it should appear, with special care in quoting the correct dates. She was ex. "Marjorie" or "Margery" and had the distinction of being the first steamboat to cross the English Channel, in April 1816, having previously plied down from the East coast of Scotland. Probably the first sea-going steamboat was p.s. "Thames", ex "Argyle", which plied the route from Glasgow on 22 May 1815 to London via Lands End. (Fred Hawks, World Ship Society CD, Issue 2, 2010.)OMINOREG (talk) 10:06, 1 October 2010 (UTC).
NtheP (talk) 11:06, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Critique

This article gives a pretty comprehensive overview of steamboats, as well as the technology involved in their creation. Beginning with the invention of the first steam pump, it details the innovations and improvements that later lead to the commercialization of the steamboat, also mentioning the impact it had on American society in the 19th century. The article is fairly well written and full of relevant pictures and diagrams. The references could be a little better though; about half are from the last two decades, while the others date much further back. Some problems with the article have already been pointed out by other users, mainly the distinction between steamboats and steamships. This article merges both together, while separate articles, or a name change, would likely be more helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HIST406-10lwack (talk • contribs) 19:44, 4 October 2010 (UTC) I query "Accommodation". Where is the justification for this entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by OMINOREG (talk • contribs) 17:58, 6 October 2010 (UTC) A REFERENCE TO SUSTANTIATE THE CLAIM FOR P.S. "ACCOMMODATION" IS DIRELY NEEDED. OMINOREG (talk) 10:09, 7 October 2010 (UTC) I have now remedied the ommission on P.S. "Accommodation"'s engines. Why are references contained within the articles and not at the end? 85.230.200.58 (talk) 13:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC) Suggestion for illustration of "last" Atlantic liner with auxiliary sail.85.230.206.213 (talk) 09:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Too much on steamships?

I'm concerned that, particularly with some recent changes, the focus here is moving from steam boats to steam ships, when there's a better place for such to be covered. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:36, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

This article is pretty random and has lots of questionable material; also, I very much agree we need a separate article on steamships. I've been thinking of writing one for a long time but haven't got around to it yet. But sooner or later it will have to be done. Gatoclass (talk) 08:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

critique of critique

The objections to this article don't seem to be either new or very critical. Calling in on the objection to the sources are "half are from the last two decades, while the others date much further back" doesn't really point out a problem. I fail to see how that in itself makes the sources in need of improvement. The discussion over the separation between steamboats and steamships is a concern that was raised in the comments, but there was never any discussion on what the separation would look like and whether there would contributions to both, neither, or one and if you were going to do the separation yourself. There is also a lack of length and an apparent lack of effort. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HIST406-10bbelsing (talk • contribs) 19:15, 10 October 2010 (UTC) I have some extra information I can impart on Patrick Miller's "sea-spook". She was 246' long; the scale model ship he sent to King Gustav of Sweden was 100' long.85.230.204.223 (talk) 16:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Steamships in War

I don't see much at all in this article devoted to military steamships. Sure, there are references to the Lusitania, and steam-powered civilian/merchant vessels being attacked by U-Boats, but there is just about nothing here on actual military ships powered by steam. I have added a note that the Battle of the Yalu River was the first naval battle between steamship fleets (despite the name of the battle, it was fought out on the sea, beyond the mouth of the river), but I'm no naval historian, nor a modern historian, and I don't really have the resources to do anything much more wit that.

A friendly request to please expand. Cheers. LordAmeth (talk) 01:49, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Tagged with globalize

This article is very much focused on North America. What about Europe? Rusland? Asia? I am sure there there is a lot to tell about steam boats on those continents as well. The Thames section is a wp:COATRACK and should probably be removed all together. Yoenit (talk) 19:18, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Globalization isn't the worst problem, confusing steamships and steamboats is. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

So? If a steamship article is written this article still needs globalization. I fail to see how the two problems are related or why you would bring it up. Yoenit (talk) 21:09, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Your proposal to "globalize" an article with a US bias was to remove the UK content, so I thought I'd best start with the simple stuff. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:50, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

No, that is not what I tried to say. The Thames section is not actually about Thames steamboats, it is about a specific ship called the SL Nuneham. As such it is a wp:COATRACK and the current content should be removed or split into a separate article. This is unrelated to the globalize issue, for which the obvious solution is to expand the article with sections on other continents. Unfortunately I do not have sources to do so myself, which I why I tagged it and left this message. Yoenit (talk)

Yes, but the main reason why this article focuses on Europe, and North America is, because they were the ones that invented the first one, and it was Europe, and North America that mainly focused on it especially for the immigrant trade. Asia, and many other places did have steamboats, but few of them used it for passenger trade. They mainly focused on the military use of the vessel. See the Japanese Imperial Navy for that information.--Trulystand700 (talk) 00:31, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Early Russian steamships.

I don't speak Russian. Evidently Charles Baird introduced steamships to Russia, and an early steam ship may be named after him the Берд Чарльз. This appears to be a link to the Elivestia "Елизавета" [1]. Maybe someone with minimal Russian language skills can add to the article. Charles Baird also has a Russian WP article under his name Берд Чарльз. Geo8rge (talk) 23:22, 8 January 2012 (UTC)