Talk:Struwwelpeter

Heinrich Hoffmann

Hello here, I came here through a link at "Hilf Mir", a song of the new Rammstein album, but either the link to the writer or the text is not correct; When clicking on Heinrich Hoffman, a nazi appears who was born in 1885, 40 years after he should have searched for a comic book...

Regards,

Torero (@ Dutch Wikipedia)

Shockheaded Peter

I have greatly shortened the treatment of the Shockheaded Peter musical, since it dominated this article, with information that was too detailed and not encyclopedic, in my judgment. If this play is really notable, then it deserves its own article. Here is the complete text:

Shockheaded Peter (SHP) is a musical entertainment based on Struwwelpeter, created and devised by Julian Bleach, Anthony Cairns, Julian Crouch, Graeme Gilmour, Tamzin Griffin, Jo Pocock, Phelim McDermott, Michael Morris and The Tiger Lillies (Martyn Jacques, Adrian Huge and Adrian Stout).

SHP combines elements of pantomime and puppetry with musical versions of the poems. Generally, the songs closely follow the text of the poems, but there are significant differences, tending towards giving the songs a much darker tone than the poems. Whereas the children in the poems only sometimes die, in the musical they all do. Fidgety Phil ends up being stabbed to death by the cutlery he throws into the air, and the bullyboys don't get dipped in black ink, instead they get their heads cut off. This makes the musical a much darker entertainment than the original book, and somewhat disturbing to younger children, but undoubtedly contributed to its huge popularity with adults.

Another difference between the book and the musical is the essentially mimed play concerning the parents of Struwwelpeter. Instead of simply being a dirty boy, Struwwelpeter is a monster of sorts, arriving as a baby brought by a stork and already sporting talon-like nails and hideous hair. In disgust, his parents eventually bury him under the floorboards of their home, where his sinister scratching eventually drives his mother to madness and his father to drink. Segments of this play are interspersed with the musical numbers, providing an element of linear plot development lacking from the songs themselves.

The entertainment is guided by an MC, the self-proclaimed "greatest actor that has ever existed", who warns the audience of the horrors to come, comments darkly on the fates of the children and adults, and generally makes a mess of things. It is, as he proclaims towards the end, "just a little bit different".

Commissioned by the West Yorkshire Playhouse in Leeds and the Hammersmith Lyric in West London, the show debuted in 1998 in Leeds before moving to London for three weeks at each theatre. The response of audience and critics led to three extended returns to the Lyric Hammersmith as well as runs in London's West End and world tours, with a slightly shorter but faster-moving show.

At the time, shows at the Lyric were not eligible for Olivier Awards, but during its first West End run in 2001, SHP was nominated for the Best Entertainment (won), Best Supporting Performance in a Musical or Entertainment (Martyn Jacques, won), Best Set Designer (Julian Crouch and Graeme Gilmour) and Best Costume Designer (Kevin Pollard) categories.

For all but one of the runs, the show featured the Tiger Lillies, an English cabaret act best known for their eccentric musical style and the falsetto voice of the lead singer Martyn Jacques, and they have a CD featuring the songs from Shockheaded Peter [1]. For the 2002 London run, the Tiger Lillies were replaced with David Thomas and Two Pale Boys with mixed results.

The main U.S. production closed on May 29, 2005, but a U.S. tour is in the works for 2006. Because of the popularity of the original book in Germany, several different productions of Shockheaded Peter have also been put on there, including at least one where Martyn Jacques' role was performed by a woman.

Joshua Davis 18:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

(I acknowledge that of the thousand plus theatre shows I've seen, it's my favourite, so NPOV is difficult for me.) I think it is notable enough to have a longer section - you have to be notable to win the Olivier, and this won two. On the other hand, I don't think it deserves a separate article - the book and the show are so intimately tied together. I'll have a think about how much longer to make it. Certainly the awards need mentioning, don't they? Lovingboth 21:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Roald Dahl influence

Does anyone have any proof for the impact of Struwwelpeter on Roald Dahl? The claim is made, but not substantiated. I'd like to know if it is true! Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.227.230.190 (talk) 20:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

St Nikolas or Agrippa?

In the version I've seen, Agrippa dips the miscreants into the ink. However, this is an English translation. Is St Nikolas in the original German? Mon Vier 09:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Mon Vier. The entire text is available at the German Wikisource: [2]. It is indeed Nikolas there. Joshua R. Davis 15:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you - in that case, I agree - best to keep as close to the original as possible. Mon Vier 17:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

In the German text he's called "Nikolas" and he's similar to, but definitely different from Saint Nikolas (i. e. no bishop's insignia). According to the German Wikipedia he might have been modeled after Tsar Nikolas. 87.139.81.19 11:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. When I originally wrote "St. Nikolas", I was making an inference. Now I have edited it down to "Nikolas". Joshua R. Davis 14:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

The German Wikipedia does actually identify "Nikolas" with Sankt Nikolaus, both in their Struwwelpeter and in Weihnachtsmann (i.e., Santa Claus). In the first article, they write: „Nikolas“ (eig. hl. Nikolaus), that is: "Nikolas" (actually Saint Nicholas)". In the second article, they write: Bereits die Darstellung des Nikolaus im weltweit verbreiteten Struwwelpeter, der 1844 entstand, ist dem heutigen Bild des Weihnachtsmannes recht ähnlich, that is: "Already the representation of Nicholas in the Struwwelpeter, which was written in 1844 and distributed world-wide, is quite similar to the present-day image of Santa Claus." Concerning the Tsar Nicholas I theory, the claim in the German Wikipedia page is merely that "Nicholas' image with beard mocks, besides, Tsar Nicholas I". An interesting theory, which, as far as I can discern, is not based on anything, and is seriously weakened by the fact that Nicholas I did not sport a beard and did not wear a robe and fez. (For images of the Tsar, see commons:Category:Nicholas I of Russia.)  --Lambiam 22:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The German Wikipedia also lacks references for these assertions that Nikolas is Sankt Nikolaus. It would be nice to get a definitive answer. Mgnbar (talk) 10:46, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The English translation by Mark Twain (Slovenly Peter) uses "Saint Nicholas". The text can be found in (Twain, Mark, 1835–1910. "Slovenly Peter (Struwwelpeter); or, Happy Tales and Funny Pictures, Freely Translated by Mark Twain". Reprinted in: The Lion and the Unicorn – Volume 20, Number 2, December 1996, pp. 155–165); if you have Project MUSE access, see here p. 157. An identification is also made in (Martina Eberspächer 2002. Der Weihnachtsmann: Zur Entstehung einer Bildtradition in Aufklärung und Romantik, p. 74 ff., in German); see here or here (search for "Struwwelpeter"). The identification is not presented as a theory, but as something apparently obvious. This last source also mentions the Tsar interpretation – but as political satire based on the well-known verse.  --Lambiam 20:53, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Great! Let's put it in. Mgnbar (talk) 00:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Struwwelhitler-reprint-2007.jpg

Image:Struwwelhitler-reprint-2007.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Psychological interpretation

Why was this section deleted? I grant that it needed citation, but the same section exists in the German Wikipedia version, and it seems worthwhile to mention, as an example of cultural permeation. Mgnbar (talk) 19:30, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Deep insight

The article claims that "According to Ellen Handler Spitz, the book was intended as a highly-exaggerated send-up…." How does Ellen Spitz know what the author intended?Lestrade (talk) 14:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)Lestrade

Cuts of 2009 November 7

I just cut the following material from the article. The first part was recently added without citation and has writing/typing problems. The second part is essentially a litany of slight name changes. It also needs citation and has writing/typing problems, and it seems trivial/uninteresting. Mgnbar (talk) 15:31, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Bob Staake has been quoted to say that he once explained "Struwwelpeter" as 'a book that Hitler could of written on Mescaline', (although his dates are inacurate) this attitude reflects a common critical consensus to tie the brutal punishment shown in the book to a German attitude of self restraint.

In one English version of "The Story of the Inky Boys" Nikolas is Tall Agrippa. In the same version there are more differences - for instance "The Story of the Wild Huntsman" is now "The Story of the Man Who Went Out Shooting." In "The Dreadful Story of Pauline and the Matches" (or "...Harriet and the Matches" in this version) the cats are not named. In other versions they are - the original German was "Mienz" and "Maunz." Also in this version, "The Story of Kaspar who did not have any Soup" becomes "The Story of Augustus Who Would Not Have Any Soup." The English adaption was a propaganda version whhich became 'Struww-Hitler'

85ct stamp by german mail

the reason why the stamp honoring the book and its author carries the 85ct value is that this is the reduced postage for books up to 500g ( see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Büchersendung). there is no other mail product of deutsche post ag that costs 85ct. -- .~. 79.198.122.158 (talk) 00:23, 29 December 2010 (UTC)