Talk:Subsidiarity

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Article 9

"Article 9 of the proposed European constitution"

Is this refering to the new draft constitution? (as of 12 June 2004)

The constitution proposal is a historical curiosity now and it fails wp:trivia to keep it in the article, so I have deleted the reference. --Red King (talk) 13:17, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Quadragesimo Anno

Some anonymous user removed the quotation of paragraphs 79 and 80 of Quadragesimo Anno without giving the reason. Please do not do this again. – Kaihsu 22:47, 2004 Dec 11 (UTC)

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Added link to Distributism - a subsidiarity/CST based political movement. Collincentre 04:50, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Subsidiarity vs. Globalization

It would be interesting if we had valid material discussing the relationship between globalization and subsidiarity. The social structure of the Middle Ages was strongly marked by the doctrine of subsidiarity, and therefore some social scientists have argued that the medieval period had already gone through an archaic form of globalization. The European Union has officially adopted subsidiarity into its official structures, which still maintains a political influence to this to this day. And yet, it could be argued that globalization is the exact opposite of subsidiarity because decisions and policies are always adopted at the highest possible level, such as G-8, WTO and World Bank meetings. ADM (talk) 11:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

The article Localism may be what you want. --Red King (talk) 11:22, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Subsidiarity contradiction in the article

The very first paragraph it states: "Subsidiarity is, ideally or in principle, one of the features of federalism."

This statemant is simply an oxymoron as even the following sentence, in the 2nd paragraph, states that subsidiartiy is the concept behind the Tenth Ammendment to the US Constitution where it limits the powers of the FEDERAL gov't relative to the States. Whereas Federalism concentrates power in a Central Federal Gov't. subsidiarity limits the powers of centralized government ti the more local state/local goverments.Micael (talk) 14:20, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

How do you reach the conclusion that "Federalism concentrates power in a Central Federal Gov't"? The key difference between a federal system (even more so a confederation) is that power is not concentrated at the centre but rather that the centre only has those powers that the member states choose to delegate to it, so that it may act on their behalf in those matters where joint action is more effective than several action. If subsidiary does not exist, it is an autocracy not a federation. --Red King (talk) 17:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to remove template "Social teachings of the popes" from the side bar or move the Catholic teaching to second place.

As the article stands, the 'Social teachings of the popes' side bar goes down beside the European Union law, which is offensive to many EU residents (athiests, protestants, jews, muslims) and misleading because it implies an association that does not exist. There are two solutions to this.

1. remove the template
2. move the catholic teaching section behind the EU law section.

Personally I'd prefer the first, because it leaves the historicity intact, but the second is acceptable if the template must remain. --Red King (talk) 17:32, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I think you answered your own question. It is obvious the format of the article is based on the chronological history and whether a template is included or not really makes no difference. This has no political or religious implications, but as to what is related to the subject of the article. Making such a change, would make it a polical/religious issue...not to mention make it difficult to present when fact is it is a concept integrally associated with Catholic Social Teaching and many Papal documents as is quite obvious.

The lone other alternatives are 1)Leaving a large space between the two sections or 2)Widening the template so as to minimize the space between the articles.

Though I comprehend your issue. The true problem is simply that there are tooo many Papal documents regarding the subject. Perhaps they can play with the font size/spaces. Micael (talk) 05:40, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to demerge this article

We have two major uses of the term subsidiarity - the Roman Catholic one and the European Union one. I seems to me quite wrong to cram them into a single article, just because they use the same word that could be in Wiktionary. I propose that we demerge this article into Subsidiarity (European Union law) and Subsidiarity (Canon law) with a disambiguation article to point people to the correct one. Comments? --Red King (talk) 19:36, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Or the Catholic one could be moved into a new section of Parochialism, leaving this one as a Eurolegal article with a hatnote to the canon article. Jim.henderson (talk) 19:49, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I have demerged the article as there was no discussion on the proposal. The new article is Subsidiarity (Catholicism)--Red King (talk) 20:23, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Subsidiarity is a single concept with a single origin, Catholic Social Teaching. It is used in two settings, but it is one single idea. There is no need to have two separate articles. Anyone in European Law would agree that the concept came from the Catholic Church, so what is the motivation to separate out the Catholic content? If the uses must have two articles, the article Subsidiarity should be for the Catholic use as that is the origin of the term. The European use is derivative and thus ought to be called Subsidiarity (European law).EastmeetsWest (talk) 18:56, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Indeed -- at the very least, if they are two separate concepts, it would be good if there was some text either here or in the Subsidiarity (Catholicism) which explained the difference between the two. --Wtrmute (talk) 15:29, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

The article acknowleges that the word was invented by a Roman Catholic theologian but today the 'value association' is different. Today, the term 'subsidiarity' is used very politically, especially in the EU but also to a lesser degree in the US – see States Rights. The 'inference' of the word has changed, even though its literal meaning [dictionary definition] has not: the term is most widely used in its political sense, whereas only Catholics [probably only Catholic theologians] use its religious sense. Per WP:Commonname, the article with the unqualified name should describe the meaning that is most commonly used. Wiktionary only needs one definition – but this is an encyclopedia.

In my view, it would clog this article and annoy its readers were we to allocate any more than a short sentence to the etymological history. If people want to know more about the etymology, let them follow the hyperlink.--Red King (talk) 20:59, 28 November 2011 (UTC)