Talk:Sukkot

Sukkot vs. Sukkah

Hi, I found this article after seeing the term "Sukkah" in a newspaper article. The term "Sukkah" gets used in this article, but is never defined. Is "Sukkah" the singular form of "Sukkot", and the holiday is called by the plural? Do you build a Sukkah on Sukkot? Thanks, Creidieki 23:55, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Correct. The festival is called Sukkot, which is plural, and the hut is called a Sukkah. JFW | T@lk 11:18, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

All right. I added a note at the beginning of the article; I think it's particularly important to have that towards the beginning, since Sukkah redirects here. -- Creidieki 17:59, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

How many days

The third paragraph should be edited to reflect the Israel/Diaspora dichotomy discussed below wrt Shemini Atzeret. That would probably necessitate a bit of rewriting of both paragraphs to minimize awkwardness. The same goes for the section below entitled "A seven or eight day festival. I may do it when I have time... MOE37x3 20:37, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hi, this sentence needs to be removed, for obvious reasons: "A sukkah is a jewish thing that no one wants of about shizzle gizzle gizingar." I tried to do it myself, but couldn't figure it out.

Added link to entry for Worldwide Church of God

I added a four line entry for Worldwide Church of God at the conclusion of the article due to the several mentions elsewhere concerning this church and the Feast of Tabernacles. See also the entry for the history of Big Sandy Texas. MPLX/MH 06:02, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sukkah photo

I agree with the most recent edit that the affiliation of the Jews in the graphic is irrelevant. However, I think that the Sukkah pictured is a poor example:

- It looks structurally poor and (IMHO) aesthetically unpleasing.

- More importantly, it is Halachically invalid (at least according to "Orthodox tradition"), since only a minority of the top is covered with schach. I think that it would make more sense for the example of a sukkah pictured in this encyclopedia to be one that everyone would consider to actually be one.

This explains my edit to the caption. Could a better photo be substituted in?

MOE37x3

I agree that it would be better to use another photo. There are copyright issues with using something like [1], right? How do we get around that? Dreyfus 21:29, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I also agree. The sekhakh must (traditional, Orthodox, Conservative) or should preferably (Reconstructionist) cover the majority of the top of the sukkah to be considered a valid sukkah. The picture in question is not a good choice for the only picture in an article on Sukkot. How about using Bernhard Picart's picture from the Dutch 1700s...? It is old enough to be PD... -- Olve 03:21, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Months

It says Tishrai is the first month of the year. Actually, Tishrai is the seventh month, and the year begins on the first day of the seventh month. Should I fix it? Put in an explaination?

Yes, indeed, you're correct. I believe Nissan is the first month of the year.--Lance6968 06:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Feast of _______?

I've never heard of this title for Sukkot. On Yahoo and Google searches it turned up a couple of very unsavoury sites, on MSN and jewfaq, nothing at all. Anyone know where it comes from? If not, could it be removed please? 62.189.228.3 13:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Vandalism. I've fixed it and warned the unsavoury character who made these edits. JFW | T@lk 13:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Many thanks for doing that. Eleanor Miller 14:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

The defamatory reference in the heading hereof amounts to further defamation; accordingly, I have removed it. It should not have been on this site for what is now almost a year. --Lance6968 02:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Ushpizzin

To the best of my knowledge, David was the Second King of Israel. However, I'm not familiar with this tradition or holiday so I don't know if the guest is supposed to be Saul, if the explanation should read "the second king of Israel," or if it is correct as is for reasons unknown to me.--Serf 21:05, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Infobox Problem

Fixed the Infobox which did not work - problem was incorrect syntax. --LeFrog 09:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

ushpizziyot

I think his is crazy. There is no source for this! The source for the ushpizzin is the Zohar. And to add that one person in the entire world wants to add in Ruth is no appropriate to put in this at all. This is meant to be a factual explanation of sukkot based on fact and sources. I think this should be removed immediately!

I also found it quite strange. Some change should be made to this. Amoruso 01:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually if you do a Google search for “ushpizot” you will find approximately 300 references to this ritual, including explanations, charts and pedagogical material. It is clearly of recent origin and associated with Reform and Renewal practice. Perhaps the transliteration ought to be corrected.Professorkemp 06:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC) 06:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

If so it should not read "many Jews" but "Reform Jews."

The 1998 Conservative movement prayerbook "Sim Shalom" includes the women (p. 330 in the Shabbat and Festival editions; other editions may vary). The intro text in the book explains that the women have been added to the men mentioned in the Zohar and some of the rationale. Charlesg1 07:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

it seems similar to the cup of Miriam in passover - new mostly feminist additions. IMO, mention should be made of such customs (they're cute ;) as long as it's only small additions and no alternations I think it's harmless) but the problem was that in the article it was represented as being on the same level of ushpizzin. Amoruso 08:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Split "Sukkah"

It's a reasonably separate topic, big enough to have its own article. 'Nuff said. --Smack (talk) 05:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

good idea, it will also enlarge Category:Sukkot. Amoruso 23:46, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Move for Semiprotection

FYI I have applied for temporary semi-protection for this article due to the recent barrage of vandalism. Some days I wish I was an admin so that I could have done this myself... Valley2city 17:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I've consistently wondered why people vandalise this article--It's not even a subject most people who aren't Jewish have heard of. As for being an admin, why not apply for it? Kari Hazzard (T | C) 17:35, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Kari, but I think I will wait until I have more of a shot, when I double my edits to 1,500, which should, at my accellerating edit rate, probably be late November. Valley2city 17:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Alright, hopefully this lessens the vandalism influx. Valley2city 23:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism continues

Can someone please edit the Four Species section to remove the 'your mom' interjected comments? I do not know what the sentences ought to say, but it is obvious that the phrase does not belong repeated throughout the section... there are also the longer inserted phrases of 'your mom goes to collage' and 'yes she does go to collage'. Are there supposed to be words behind the inserted phrases? or are they simply inserts that can be deleted, I don't know. BroThadeus (talk) 14:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

End Date in InfoBox

In the infobox it says sukkot ends 22nd of Tishrei (21st in Israel). Should we be technical here and say that sukkot ends on the 20th? Shemini Atzeret is a completely separate festival! I want to bring this up here instead of making the actual edit because I think that I will get reverted by those who think of it as an 8 or 9 day festival instead of the 7 day festival that is celebrated in Israel and the Diaspora. It is Shemini Atzeret/Simchat Torah which is 1 or 2 days and therefore ends on the 21st or 22nd of Tishrei. Valley2city 21:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

You are technically correct, and I would generally agree with your statement. However, (a) it is sometimes referenced even in the Torah as including Shemini Atzeres (this would support calling it 8 or 9 days) and (b) in the Diaspora we eat in the Sukkah on Shemini Atzeres (but not Simchas Torah) although without a bracha. I would leave this one as is. Manassehkatz (talk) 23:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Why are these Festivals addressed as Jewish holidays when the they as well as the Torah were given to all the 12 tribes of Yisrael. Why have I, being a Levite, find this out from a non-Yahudim. Why are these things not being re-revealed to the rest of us who have a Heart for Torah. I now understand why Yahshua had to come. His purpose was to come for the lost sheep of the house of Yisrael and bring the rest of us back to Torah since it's seems like, at least for the most part, we cannot rely on our own Yahudim bretheren. Yahshua has definetly fulfilled his purpose, and I being lost have made teshuva and urge my Yahudim brothers to Find Yahshua because there is no other acceptable sacrifice in this generation but to uncircumsize your hearts. Shema Yisrael... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.153.112.23 (talk) 17:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Where should I begin? This really should be a separate heading, but I don't want to give it that much credibility. However, I feel compelled to respond in case there are people out there who are confused by this drivel. First of all, while this is called a "Jewish" holiday and "Jew" comes from "Judah", it is universally accepted that this refers to all 12 tribes including of course Levites. For this to be turned into a J-for-J advertisement is simply incredibly twisted. Manassehkatz (talk) 23:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Historical context

The following sentence is problematic: "The sukkah is reminiscent of the type of thatched huts in which the ancient Israelites dwelt during their 40 years of wandering in the desert after the Exodus from Egypt." I ran across this in the course of editing a book by a Protestant minister who made a similar assertion, which didn't jibe with my memory, which is that the sukkah traces to temporary huts used in the fields during the harvest season, in the Promised Land (and therefore in the era after the wandering in the desert). So I ran it by the Conservative rabbi who lives across the street. Here's what he said: "I think [you are] correct to associate the structures we call 'sukkot' with field huts used in agriculture. The Israelite wandering is not confirmed by any extrabiblical source that I am aware of, and so its historicity is questionable to begin with. The Biblical account includes Bilaam's 'Ma tovu ohalekha Yaqov,' and commentators such as Rashi also use the word 'ohel' (tent) to describe the dwellings of the Israelites. That would be the normal shelter for that time and place. The reference "Israel dwelt in Sukkot" is understood, and supported by context and other information, to refer to a place."Dmargulis (talk) 13:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

He is sort of correct, but depending on how you understand the sources, it is strange that he would expect to find such a reference in an extra biblical source, given the specific period it traditionaly should have happened in, the turmoil and chaos in egypt at the time, not to mention egypts penchant for revisionist history and their inability to admit to basic and obvious facts... on the other hand, they're not supposed to be reminiscient, but rather to recall the temporary dwelling. (tents) that they lived in, as well as to be distinct (ie using a hut at a time when a hut would not be generaly used. (thats in the gemorah sukkos.) 136.165.112.219 (talk) 12:42, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

There are two opionins mentioned in the gemara in Sukkos. Rabbi Eliezer states that the "Sukkos" refers to the protective Clouds of Glory, while Rabbi Akiva states that actual booths were used. As to the word ohel, tent, the rigid Tabernacle was also called an ohel. Chesdovi (talk) 13:01, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I am not familiar with the rabbis, but what about Leviticus 23:42-43 for an authority, "Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.238.198.187 (talk) 01:57, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Jewish - Christian

The Feast of Tabernacles is also Christian. For the Day of Atonement article we have mention of both. Pretty much any Christian keeping Atonement will also be keeping the Feast of Tabernacles. I think we need a similar layout as the article on the Day of Atonement.

ALLthestinkinnamesaretaken (talk) 01:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

How is it observed? Please provide sources. Chesdovi (talk) 09:44, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to provide resources. I know of many churches that keep it. Church of God International keeps it, there are many independent churches that came out of the Worldwide Church of God that keep it. Here is CGI's site: http://cgi.org/site/index.php/Feast-2008-/-Holy-Days.html. It is kept as an 8 day feast (some call it a 7 day Feast and consider the 8th day, The Last Great Day a separate Feast). You stay outside your home, wherever God's people are. Many people travel long distances. Generally there is a lot of food and services daily and celebration. Here is our church's website, ours is a small independent church http://www.icog7.org/ . There is a link with a brief description of one of our Feasts.

We do not use temporary booths as we believe our bodies are now the temporary booths (or tabernacles/ temples). —Preceding unsigned comment added by ALLthestinkinnamesaretaken (talk • contribs) 04:44, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not real familiar with how everything works here, I'm amazed I got this in the right spot.

ALLthestinkinnamesaretaken (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:41, 1 December 2009 (UTC).

Well, this article is about the Jewish festival. If some Christian churches celebrate a similar festival, the question will be is it notable, and if so (WP:RS needed), should it be mentioned in this article, or should it get its own article. Seeing how "Christianity" in its more eccentric forms in the US is essentially Old Testament reenactment, I have no doubt some people also observe a Feast of Tabernacles, but this really needs coverage from a quotable source if we are to mention it. --dab (𒁳) 09:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

== Christian Links? -- Could someone please explain the direct relevance of the link section entitled 'Christian', prior to my removing it as irrelevant to an article about a Jewish holy festival? Some we will see its presence as incitory proselyting, so unless it can be shown to be directly relevant under the strictest WP terms, I will edit in the near future. Leegee23 (talk) 10:01, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Sukkah city

I have moved the "sukkah city" topic out from underneath "Shemini Atzeret and Simchat Torah", as it is not a sub-topic of those holidays. It is now its own section. 66.208.46.178 (talk) 17:28, 21 September 2010 (UTC)