Talk:Sun Yat-sen

Sun was Christian?

I think it is an Americanist claim, please source it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.8.89.36 (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

There is plenty of documentation at this site that is already listed in the links section. Dr. Sun Yat-Sen Foundation of Hawaii A virtual library on Dr. Sun in Hawaii including sources for six visits.Brian0324 17:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Dr Sun Yat-sen Museum in Hong Kong presents a register book. The book recorded that Sun Yat-sen (孫日新) became a Christian in congregational church. — HenryLi (Talk) 15:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The article currently includes this phrase "Sun Yat-sen was flirting with the cult of the Ethnic European Western Orientalism Christianity". Now is that someone who doesn't want to say Sun Yat-sen was investigating the Christian faith OR is there really a cult called "Ethnic European Western Orientalism Christianity" (which phrase in itself makes no sense to me)? What's it supposed to mean? Pbhj (talk) 14:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

most likely a bad translation in grammar from chinese to english.68.160.243.200 (talk) 18:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Independence of Kwangtung Province

In Sun Yat-sen Museum in Hong Kong, there is a picture with brief description that Sun Yat-sen, Li Hung-chang (李鴻章), and the Governor of Hong Kong met at probably Canton to discussion for the independence of Kwangtung Province. Can anyone add the details of this part of history? --— HenryLi (Talk) 05:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

"Sun", "Yat-sen" or "Sun Yat-sen"?

Being "Sun" a family name, and "Yat-sen" a given name, how should Sun Yat-sen be named in the text? We have "Sun" everywhere there. Shouldn't it be "Yat-sen" if we want to use his given name only, or even the full "Sun Yat-sen" everywhere, if we want to maintain the Chinese formality? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.222.64.96 (talk) 14:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

There's no reason to use his given name by itself; this is even more rare in formal Chinese than it is in formal English. Using the last name by itself is fine; this is the normal usage in such cases as "Mao". I suggest varying between "Sun" and "Sun Yat-sen".—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 21:55, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Cantonese or Hakka?

Actually Sun Yat Sen is a Cantonese because Sun Yat Sen stated it himself in his speech. Also his relatives as well said they were cantonese whose ancestors migrated from Dongguan [mainly Cantonese] to Zhongshan during the Ming Dynasty. Check this article: http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/22808296.html

This is a one-sided article. His only son, Sun Fo, former Premier of ROC, stated that Sun family is Hakka. This is also stated by his granddaughter who is the representative of the Sun family now.

早年曾隨侍中山先生革命多年的北伐、抗日名將薛岳將軍，他告訴台灣著 名客屬研究專家謝福健先生說：中山先生自己說過，他原籍在紫金縣，是 東江客家人。孫陳淑英夫人也曾在謝先生著作中親簽：“先翁是客家人， 老家在紫金”等字樣。特別難能可貴的是中山先生本人也曾說過自己是 客家人，承認客家淵源。據楊慶平先生著《孫中山的家世與客屬淵源》 一文載：“有日孫中山在大元帥府接見到訪客家人，對國家大事多有談及， 並蒙先生多作指示，無不表示敬佩，臨別前有一位客家人對孫中山先生說：‘中山 先生，您是客家人？’中山先生肯定地答：‘是，是！’在座陪客 都滿懷疑惑。其中有廣府人直言對孫中山先生說：‘中山先生，你明明是 廣府人，為何說是客家人？’孫先生很和藹地對他們說：‘我們都是中國 人，而且在革命時期，要通力合作，他們說我是客家人乃指祖先是客家人’ 。他們聽了啞口無言，由此也可見孫先生的偉大胸懷。”Soccer174 (talk) 09:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

This article is in Category:Hakka people, but Hakka is not mentioned in the article. That's lame. If he is from a Hakka family, let's mention that in the article.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 21:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree, his ancestry should be stated in there because his descendants stated. --Visik (talk) 08:01, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Sun Yatsen and the 2 most prominent members of the Sun family: Sun Fo, his son, and 孙穗芳, his granddaughter, have stated clearly that they are Hakkas.

I have added this link to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soccer174 (talk • contribs) 09:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC) 浓浓乡情系中原—访孙中山先生孙女孙穗芳博士 - 我的祖父是客家人 http://www.chinanews.com.cn/n/2003-12-04/26/376869.html “我的祖父是客家人，唯唯客家，系出中原。世界客属文化中心在郑东经济开发区奠基、建造，我将在文化中心内为祖父立一座铜像，宣扬客家精神。”孙中山先生孙女孙穗芳博士，在接受记者采访时动情地说。 　　今年已六十八岁的孙穗芳博士，现任美国孙中山和平教育基金会主席、夏威夷中国妇女慈善总会会长、夏威夷太平洋大学校董等职。十月份，世界客属第十八届恳亲大会在河南郑州召开期间，孙穗芳博士因为有事未能及时参加。十一月二十三日，应河南省客家联谊会会长林雪梅的邀请，她专程携慈善界、企业界人士等一行八人前到中原祖根地寻根拜祖，考察访问。 　　作为客家人的后裔，孙博士在对祖根地进行为期十天的考察访问期间，浓浓乡情溢于言表。此间，孙博士到祖上出生地开封陈留追祖探源，到河洛口、黄河探寻源远流长的中原文化，参观了巩义“神堤”、登封少林寺、洛阳关林庙，并到新郑皇帝故里寻根拜祖、缅怀始祖功德。 　　在洛阳华侨中学等参观地，孙博士还慷慨解囊，捐资助学。以孙博士为首的考察团一行已与河南有关部门达成协议，将洛阳华侨学校更名为中山华侨学校，在开封陈留建立一座孙中山纪念堂，在洛阳建立客家始祖地公园。孙博士将在这两地和世界客属第十八届恳亲大会期间奠基的世界客属文化中心分别为祖父孙中山立三座铜像，激励中原儿女发扬以孙中山等为优秀代表的客家先民们“开拓进取，爱国爱乡”的精神，为“振兴中华”而贡献力量。 　　“中原是中华民族文化的发源地，也是客家人的祖根地，到祖根地、孕育华夏文明的黄河岸边、到轩辕皇帝故里，寻根拜祖，内心很激动。中原儿女都很重视文化，也很积极地追忆历史，给我留下了深刻的印象。”一直致力于研究、宏扬孙中山思想,满腔热情在世界各地演讲、讲学，在华人华侨界颇具影响的孙穗芳博士欣慰地对记者说。 　　孙穗芳博士表示，她将广泛宣传中原悠久灿烂的文化和经济社会发展所取得的成就，介绍更多的海外华侨华人到中原故里寻根拜祖、投资兴业。 　　在即将结束考察访问离开中原之际，孙穗芳博士欣然提笔，饱蘸深情写下了“中原情，客家根”、“锦绣中华”十个大字。

编辑:赵莉 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soccer174 (talk • contribs) 09:08, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Never can Punti and Hakka convince each other. There are always counter-evidences from each side. --— HenryLi (Talk) 18:46, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Hakka people have migrated over the years to southern China and merged into Guangdong's northern prefecture culture. Sun Yat-sen is what you would call a Hakka Cantonese. Cantonese people are the punti. He is of Hakka ancestry as well as Guangdong because he was born there. So it should be stated in the article maybe under the Early years section and also the category section of the article.--Visik (talk) 07:58, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Wait...Dr. Sun was a US Citizen?!?

"In 1904 his alleged birth in Hawaii was certified. As a consequence, he was automatically declared a citizen of the United States and was issued an American passport." What!?!? It all makes sense, till the point that he traveled with a US Passport?! So the founding father of ROC (the PRC doesn't hate him either) was in fact a US Citizen who traveled with a US Passport?! Someone please produce some RS on that, otherwise, the "passport part" is not gonna last. Also, I am adding a "CN Tag" on that. TheAsianGURU (talk) 07:40, 4 March 2009 (UTC) PS: Again, I am not aganst the idea that he might had been a citizen, just the fact that he was issued a passport & used the passport. TheAsianGURU (talk) 07:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

This is a fake edit by 85.179.138.189. Benjwong (talk) 05:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I had removed statements claiming that he was certified born in Hawaii. There is a link in the External Links section stating that Sun Yat-sen assumed US citizenship in 1904 for protection because of his revolutionary activities. At that time, Chinese Exclusion Act prevented Chinese people to be naturalized as US citizens, so the only access to US citizenship was by birth. Sun Yat-sen probably obtained a birth certificate illicitly to apply for citizenship. Nevertheless, I believe that it is beyond doubt that he was born in China. --Joshua ^{Say "hi" to me!}_{What I've done?} 18:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know that it was "illicit" so much as that Hawaii birth certificates were apparently obtainable even if one were not actually born there. I don't know the legal details of it, but I get the impression that his obtaining this document was legal, even if it represented a lie as to his place of birth. LordAmeth (talk) 02:07, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

He also had an American God-son, the literary renowned eccentric Paul Linebarger a.k.a Cordwainer Smith. Should this be mentioned under family? (Tetris11) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.66.211 (talk) 14:17, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay... why does the edit and the link to his american god-son keep getting deleted? Its valid, people. No need to get nationalistic...(Tetris11)--82.43.66.211 (talk) 20:15, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Adding a filled out in-line citation to a reliable third-party source might keep it in longer.

I did clarify that during his first visit to the Hawaiian islands it was not part of the USA but an independent country with Kalākaua as King. As stated above the bogus passport was to avoid being deported after the annexation of 1898 when the stricter US laws applied. W Nowicki (talk) 22:08, 9 April 2010 (UTC) 71.202.24.202 (talk) He was indeed a US citizen and there is documentary evidence of this in the San Francisco archives. Whether or not he lied about his birthplace is not clear. —Preceding undated comment added 20:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC).

Sun was born after he died?

Born: 12 November 1999(1999-11-12) or 24 November 1932(1932-11-24) Xiangshan, Empire of Great Qing of China or Kingdom of Hawaii

Died: 12 March 1925 (aged 58) or 12 March 1925 (aged 54) Beijing, Republic of China

Someone fix it, please. --125.237.102.237 (talk) 09:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

In addition: I am pretty sure that he died in Tianjin or at least on the train from Tianjin to Beijing and not in the Hospital at Beijing. Can somebody give a source to the Beijing Hospital death statement? 60.28.43.134 (talk) 08:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Sun Zhongshan

Shouldn't the name he's generally known by in Chinese areas be highlighted at the very beginning of the article?

Xihe (talk) 14:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Pinyin version of Sun's name is wrong?

I'm not a Chinese linguist, but I'm pretty sure the Pinyin for Sun's name is Sun Zhongshan (111), not Sun Yixian as it's currently listed. This is my first time posting here. Sorry if this is the wrong place for this critique.

Cheers,

Will

Wmtracy (talk) 15:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

The Yixian spelling comes from another form, 孫逸仙, which is apparently the name he used for Europe and the United States. Yixian -> Yat-sen, which is why that name is used for the initial Pinyin rather than Zhongshan. -Multivariable (talk) 17:22, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Zhongshan?

The article makes mention that he is most commonly known in Mandarin as "Zhongshan," not as Yixian, the Mandarin pronunciation of the characters for Yat-Sen. But the article offers no explanation why this is so. When, how, and why did Yat-Sen (Yixian) become Middle Mountain? Is this a posthumous name? A courtesy name? Some other kind of alternative name within the Chinese naming tradition? LordAmeth (talk) 02:10, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Zhongshan is the Chinese pronunciation of the Japanese surname Nakayama. According to Harold Schiffrin (Sun Yat-sen and the Origins of the Chinese Revolution, 148), Sun adopted this pseudonym in Japan in 1897, when he was persona non grata in both China and Hong Kong. The article actually does mention this, but it's not put very clearly. Rgr09 (talk) 09:58, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Yeah, the article is really not clear on that. Thanks for taking the time to explain it for me. LordAmeth (talk) 21:58, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The Names of Sun Yat-sen article is now improved. User Rgr09 is correct anyhow. Benjwong (talk) 17:32, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Birth controversy

The hawaii birth certification was moved out to a separate controversy section. There are still many sources that does not mention this event, and do not count it at all. The sources used are still not that great. For other political reasons this is still a controversy. Benjwong (talk) 17:50, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Whether it's a controversy or not, we shouldn't put it in a separate section when it can be integrated with the rest of the History section. If it's controversial, you can just say so in the History section. In general, wp:criticism sections and equivalent are discouraged since they often grow disproportionately to the rest of the article, and are not neutral. Laurent (talk) 02:48, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia hates America. Sun Yat-sen is America's most prized son, let the US have its time in the sun. Do you really think China could have produced such an intelligent and proactive man? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.34.188.228 (talk) 14:45, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

assassination attempt?

The article states "The assassination attempt on Dr. Sun's life was featured in Bodyguards and Assassins", as if it was a fact, but is not elsewhere mentioned. The article on the movie states only that certain characters are historical, not the events. Did he come to Hong Kong in 1905 or 1906? Did he meet with leaders from other provinces? Did he not visit his mother?69.72.27.159 (talk) 07:01, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

What was Sun YAt SEn MOSt Credited for?

There are many things Su YAt Sen has done but what is he most Credited for?

Please help,

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.67.224.136 (talk) 03:20, 26 February 2012 (UTC)