Talk:Tamar of Georgia

Comment

Dear Levzur, I just cannot understand why have you removed the words stating David Soslani's Ossetian roots. As far as I know, he was a descendant of the Georgian prince Demetre Bagrationi, who was a son of King Giorgi I and his Ossetian wife Alde.

Best wishes, Kober

Correct name

I do belive that the correct English name would be Queen Tamara. For example, we say Davit Mepe, which is King David in English, so we should use Tamara, rather than Tamar, I suppose. SosoMK 20:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

you mean King Tamar (considering that in georgian she is called [Tamar Mepe]). And i to dubble Soso about name of the article - Tamar of Georgia sould be King Tamar of Georgia. psycho_NIX 13:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

David Soslan, A Historic Name, A Legend, and A Historic Legend

Was David Soslan descendant of Bagrationi Family? Is it a definitive information? The only thing about David Soslan, what we know is; he was the son of the king of Alania.

how did she die?

doesn't say... anyone know? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.9.199 (talk) 21:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Image in the infobox

I don't understand why the medieval image has been replaced with a modern one. In which way is this picture "a standard depiction"? I think it's far better to have a contemporary or near-contemporary depiction rather than a highly romanticized modern image whose origin is not completely clear to me. I think this is a 20th-century picture whose authorship and copyright status is not indicated. --Kober^Talk 04:17, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, if by highly-romanticized you mean it is not overly-simplistic and does not have scratches...I agree, it is certainly not a flat, medieval depiction. I have nothing against the older frescoes per se, but my reasoning was that 1.the previous image was already present in the article and 2.that it was very hard to decipher what Tamar and her apparel actually looked like. The modern painting, regardless of its idealistic depiction, I feel gives the readers a better idea without throwing them into confusion.

Moreover, just because the fresco is contemporary does not mean that it is more representative than the modern depiction based on it; lets face it, medieval painters were not very good at what they did, not only in Georgia but across Europe. If we remove everything romanticized, I'm afraid pages of most monarchs will be left without any paintings.

Finally, I do not see why this image should be singled out. For example, the painting by Hungarian Zichy has never been challenged even though it depicts Tamar's court more as that of Islamic Persia,( with peacock feathers and carpets) than as that of a proper, Christian Georgian monarch. I am afraid this is a result of perverted Russian fantasies of Georgia as an exotic place where they could get away from the drabness of their contemporary, neoclassical St. Petersburg. My image will provide a good counterbalance to this falsehood. And again, the old frescoes are still in every corner of the article for everyone to be seen. Regards.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 14:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

It's not our job to assess the painting skills of medieval artists. The image of Tamar from Vardzia is not definitely over-simplistic. Having scratches is not a valid reason to reject the image. I don't agree that "because the fresco is contemporary does not mean that it is more representative than the modern depiction based on it". Did you know that many modern portraits of Georgian monarchs so familiar to us are in fact based on the portraits of the 20th-century Georgian actors and actresses? Regarding the painting by Zichy, I would basically agree with you, but in this case at least the authorship and date of the painting are known. Could you provide similar info for the picture you're insisting on?--Kober^Talk 15:46, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I just updated it with the info of the book from which the scan is made. I honestly do not know the name of the painter, it just says mid-19th century, but we do not know the names of those who painted frescoes either. And to be fair, neither do we know whether they also used some people as models, or Queen Tamar was modeling herself, or they just painted from memory. Regards.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 16:06, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, we don't know who painted the fresco, but what we do know is that it is not subject to copyright. Your image may well be from the mid-19th century and hence in public domain, though. I did not really know that Salia's book included colored illustrations. --Kober^Talk 16:21, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Kober, I think you perhaps unintentionally deleted my work on specifying who the Zakarids were and how they were related to Q.Tamar. Can you explain please. Zimmarod (talk) 20:10, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

hello, hello, anyone there? Zimmarod (talk) 21:08, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for a late reply, but I think mentioning the Zacharids' background in each section is redundant. Their origin in the Armenian milieu and the fact that they held high ranks at Tamar's court are already mentioned earlier in the text.--Kober^Talk 04:20, 10 March 2012 (UTC)