Talk:The House of Mirth

Gambling

In reference to the article: Lily doesn't tell her aunt about her gambling debts out of "reverence for honesty". She makes up that story because she needs the money to pay back Trenor. "If her aunt turned such a stony ear to the fiction of the gambling debts, in what spirit would she receive the terrible avowal of the truth?"

Just out of curiosity, is her aunt really named Mrs. Peniston? 'Cause that's perverted. It was on the California STAR tests for juniors in 2006. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 01:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Perversion is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, it's Mrs.Peniston.

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 11:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Article upgrading needed

Plenty of advice here - but bear in mind that this article is primarily about a novel, the Film adaptations if they is going to head in the direction of a fuller treatment should really have their own articles. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 11:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I created a page for the 2000 film, and a disambig page for the other film adaptations - AKeen (talk) 15:46, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I found the book report synopsis unacceptably weak, at least the first half. It uses the word 'sabotage' several times to gloss over the finer meanings of what's really going on. It's like saying the Book of Matthew is about a kid born in a barn who does magic tricks.

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 11:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

(1) it's a plot summary, not an essay on the "finer meanings" of the book. (2) if you see any errors, please correct them, rather than huffing here that you find it "unacceptably weak." Uucp (talk) 13:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Amateur analysis

I'm pretty new to Wikipedia so I don't want to go about deleting stuff I shouldn't, but this article is so full of high school analysis of the characters--isn't this a bit inappropriate? Shouldn't a brief and impersonal overview of the characters be enough rather than in-depth and opinionated analyses? I'm not sure the article really needs parts like, "Aside from personality and appearance, Lawrence really isn't much of a catch." OK Chickadee (talk) 22:27, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

  -- OK Chickadee, that was the exact sentence I was going to point out!  (Plus I really think a careful reader would have mixed
 feelings about Lawrence, not just disdain for him.) And I agree with all that the article is far too long and too 
much like a book report.  Plus there's nothing on Wharton, where the novel fits into her career, etc, and barely anything about 
what critics have said about it.  Hopefully one of us will find the time to fix this thing up soon. 
--Robynebyrde (talk) 05:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Improve Chapter/Book Synopses

This is one of my favorite Wharton novels, and I'm glad to see it getting more attention on Wikipedia. Would providing a more detailed synopsis of each chapter or each of the two books in the novel be appropriate or allowed? For example:

Ch. 1. The novel begins on a hot Monday afternoon in early September, 1900, in New York City. Grand Central Station is crowded with travelers and commuters. Lawrence Selden spots his friend Lily Bart in the crowd and wonders why someone in her position is not still vacationing in the country. Other travellers linger to look at the radiant Lily. The two have known each other for 11 years, and Lily is now 29. Lily is in transit from Tuxedo to visit the Trenors at their estate in Bellomont.

The two friends stroll out of the station and head northward on Madison Avenue. As they are in Selden's neighborhood, he invites her up to his apartment at The Benedick. It is somewhat risky for Lily to be seen entering a man's apartment, but she characteristically gives the indiscretion no thought for the moment. There, over tea and cake, Lily longs for the freedom men have compared to the constraints suffered by marriageable women like herself. Since her parents' death, Lily lives in the city with her wealthy paternal aunt, Mrs. Peniston, and her unmarried cousin, Grace Stepney. In this conversation, Lily is preoccupied with her marriage prospects, and in a somewhat flirtatious way states that Selden would not be interested in marrying her, and that is the reason why he does not visit her at her aunt's. He replies that perhaps it is because she does not want to marry him that he doesn't feel induced to visit. Lily replies that she already has enough suitors, and what she wants is a friend in Selden. She continues that people are saying that she ought to marry. Selden replies, "Isn't marriage your vocation? Isn't it what you're all brought up for?" Lily runs through her recent marriage prospect: a man named Dillworth, who was discouraged from pursuing Lily by his mother and moved to India.

While she smokes in Selden's apartment, Lily peruses his library and asks pointed questions about Americana, rare books on America such as one of her suitors collects. Selden knows she is seeking information about Percy Gryce, a wealthy single man who stood to inherit the well-known Gryce collection of Americana. After further discussing the requirement for women like Lily to marry, she leaves him for her train to the Trenor's.

On the way downstairs, she finds a charwoman scrubbing the staircase. The woman (Mrs. Haffen, who appears again in Bk. 1, Ch. 9), notices her and assumes she is the woman having an affair with Selden. Lily brushes past her, and as she reaches the sidewalk encounters an acquaintance, Mr. Simon Rosedale, who asks what she was doing visiting The Benedick. She tells him she was visiting her dressmaker. He informs her that he owns the building and didn't know there were any dressmakers renting from him. She refuses his offer to accompany her to the station and quickly hails a hansom to take her to the train.

Is this too much detail? Would it be better to break it into two parts to match the novel?

Thanks

Hi, are you still here? It is too much.Sklifnir (talk) 21:43, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Plot tightening

The 'Plot' section of the article has a lot of character description (Lily Bart, Lawrence Selden, and Simon Rosedale). Moreover the description contain events occurring near the end of the book, which disrupts the flow of the section.

I suggest merging the information with the 'Other characters' section, and streamlining those paragraphs. With the addition of Lily to the 'Other characters' section it could simply become the 'Characters' section. I'll implement this if there aren't any objections. Objections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sklifnir (talk • contribs) 21:24, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Implemented, the plot section has no character description as of now. I also think it is out of order and missing key events, but as I haven't read the book it is the best I can do. Sklifnir (talk) 22:32, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Looks good, I would suggest reading some secondary analysis of the book, and see if any of the major things which the critics touch on have any problems. You are doing absolutely the right thing for improving the content, especially in relationship to plot sections! If you are still looking at improving the article, I would suggest taking a gander at Wikipedia:MOS_(novels) and see what else you can improve, I am watching the article, so I will try to catch any big mistake you make, but I like you am unfamiliar with the novel itself, Sadads (talk) 23:32, 29 April 2011 (UTC)