Talk:Theseus

Minotaur?

Apparently the section dealing with Theseus and the Minotaur has been deleted. There certainly WAS a section, as it is mentioned on this talk page, but the only references to that part, that very significant part, of the Theseus myth are currently the image captions. The View History page doesn't want to cooperate with me so I can't tell when this section was removed. I see absolutely no compelling reason for this to be absent. That there is a separate entry for Theseus and the Minotaur is irrelevant - this part of the myth is arguably the most recognised episode, not only of this myth but of all Greek myths, and should be included in the entry for Theseus. 220.233.71.222 (talk) 16:17, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The minotaur edits all sorts of wikipedia pages about him, Ares, Athena etc... There is missing data in all of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.105.155.229 (talk) 17:34, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

This is definitely the result of someone who has read House of Leaves (which crosses out all mentions of the Minotaur in its pages); and while I first chuckled after coming across this, c'mon people, this is Wikipedia not the House of Leaves Forum, people rely on this for accurate information, and mass-vandalism such as this is hardly worth the occasional chuckle... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.161.223 (talk) 19:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I've replaced it, hopefully it'll stay up this time. [arthal] (talk) 21:14, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Clarification Request

"Theseus subsequently built a deme in her honor."

• What is meant by "deme" isn't clear. Can someone clarify this, or perhaps edit the linked article to clarify the meaning? --Kerowyn 08:22, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Answer: Deme=Demos (municipality), ie city. Jaqvaar, 17th Jan 2008

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I doubt the correctness of the Greek spelling, with υ rather than ο as the second-to-last letter. Where did it come from? -- Mike Hardy

• Probably from Shakespeare. In A Midsummer Night's Dream Theseus is spelled with the "u." This might be the first widely distributed instance of the name in English. Just my own theory thoug. --Kerowyn 08:22, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Answer:The spelling in Ancient Greek was θησευς, so the U is just a transliteration of the Greek υ (which is actually both a U and a Y in modern English). The ancient Greek pronunciation was close to "theseus" whereas more modern versions sounded like "thesefs" (e+u in modern Greek is pronounced as "ef" or "ev"). The modern Greek name of this hero however (after 1981) is "Θησέας" (pronounced "Thiseas"). There was no instance anywhere throughout Greek history where the particular hero was written as "thiseos" (though the genitive form of the name is Θησεως with Ω).

As for Mike Hardy's point: this is true about modern Greek names (Nikos, Giorgos, etc), but Theseus is older than Athens itself, the name being at least 3000 years old (and perhaps even 4000). Names ending in -eus were common in those days. Similarly, modern names ending in -is, such as Kostis, derive from a double E sound (EE) which, at some point in Classical times, was turnned into the letter H (ΗΡΑΚΛΗΣ=EERAKLEES, ie the hero Hercules). Something similar happened to English with the two Us, even today known as "double-U" and written "W". One might also like to compare the usage of U and O in modern Arabic (written with the same letter). One theory states that ancient Greek in its original form sounded a lot like that.

Steve Jaqvaar

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http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Theseus.html has the previous spelling (with the υ). I too am confused, but this is consistent with the English spelling (υ is typically transliterated to 'u', whereas ο is typically transliterated to 'o'. cf. αυτο -> "auto", etc. So if the Greek had an ο, one would expect the English spelling to be "Theseos," which it is not.). Changing back until we get some contradictory sources saying otherwise. Delirium 00:43 Jan 8, 2003 (UTC)

You're mistaken about one thing: Most masculine Greek names ending with "omicron sigma" get transliterated so that they end with "us", because they got Latinized before they got transliterated. But a bit of web searching now makes me think upsilon was right. -- Mike Hardy

Wait .... I should have said they got Latinized when they got transliterated. The Romans transliterated them and adapted them to their own language by putting "-VS" where "-ΟΣ" had appeared in Greek. Then we inherited the Latin spellings. -- Mike Hardy

The first sentence of this article says Theseus was king of Athens. It seems to me that could be historical, or legendary, or mythological, or some mixture of those three. Could that be clarified in the first sentence? Michael Hardy 18:58 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I believe mythological/legendary, but probably based on a historical figure. In some quick googling I wasn't able to discern whether there's good evidence for his being historical or not, so can't say for sure. Any classicists around here? --Delirium 01:22 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Theseus and Amazons

Theseus defeated Amazons (really, an Hittite invasion) at Areopagus, in Athens, in second half of 2nd millennium BC. This event was of respective rank of Persian invasion of Dates (490 BC). This event did his name deathless. Later, he was reputed to be an hero (or sometimes, an hemigod).

--IonnKorr 20:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

That is complete original research, as well as unsupported nonsense. Hittite invasion theories are considered fringe, not mainstream, and theseus' historicity is generally regarded as extremely unlikely. --Victim of signature fascism 18:54, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

The Ball of Twine

I was under the impression (probably from Graves' _The Greek Myths_) that the ball of twine that Ariadne gave Theseus was actually to help him find the Minotaur's lair, and not to find his way out. That was the secret of the lair -- that the ball would continue to roll downhill. Does anyone else remember reading this? My copy of Graves is in another city right now :P. Chaleur 20:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

In The Greek Myths, section 98 Graves does give the impression that the ball is rolling of itself; his sources are Plutarch, Life of Theseus and Pseudo-Apollodorus, Epitome of the Bibliotheke, which has this text: "Following his instructions, she gave Theseus a ball of thread as he entered. He fastened this to the door and let it trail behind him as he went in. He came across the Minotauros in the furthest section of the labyrinth, killed him with jabs of his fist, and then made his way out again by pulling himself along the thread." In all the myths it is the winding and unwinding of the thread that is mentioned. What would be downhill one way is not the other.--Wetman 21:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Wrong number?

In the section about the minotaur is says Theseus and the 14 children returned safely but earlier in the passage it says that THeseus took the place of one of the people to be sacrificed so it should be 13 children can someone please edit it because for some reason my pc wont let me edit it it will only let me post on tlk pages ..

Explaining 'relevance'

The following formerly listed items are here because they are not relevant. This means that they do not enrich or clarify the reader's understanding of the subject, which is Theseus. As the list is added to, as doubtless it will be, please give specific reasons for irrelevance in italics, for the young folk. (Wetman 23:16, 19 August 2007 (UTC)):

• Theseus's battle with the Minotaur was adapted into an episode of Ulysses 31.

What use was made of the myth? What does this tell about the modern idea of Theseus? Why is this relevant?

• One of the episodes of Jim Henson's The Storyteller was about Theseus's battle with the Minotaur.

What use was made of the myth? What does this tell about the modern idea of Theseus? Why is this relevant?

• In the animated television series Class of the Titans, the character Theresa is descended from Theseus.

Aside from the ignorant folk etymology mislinking Theresa and Theseus, likely to confuse the Wikipedia reader as much as the poster of this factoid, this is irrelevant to the subject, which is Theseus.

• Theseus was featured as a boss in the video game God of War II. In it, the main character, Kratos, meets an aged Theseus on the Island of Creation. Theseus at that time is working for The Sisters of Fate as the Horse Keeper. Knowing that Kratos wishes to force the aid of the sisters, he decides to fight Kratos, using his spear and a mastery of Ice magic. He is then murdered for standing in Kratos' way. Somewhat ironically, Theseus calls upon Minotaurs to help him fight Kratos.

Only the name "Theseus" has been employed in this muddled invention, which is likely to confuse the Wikipedia reader as much as the poster. There is no 'irony' in misundertstandings of 'Minotaurs' [sic] and no genuine link to the subject of this article.

Phaedra and Hippolytus

Phaedra is identified as Theseus' first wife, but in other pages is his second wife. Also, her being his first wife contradicts facts presented immediately following. If he was his first wife, how could she fall in love with Theseus' son from another wife, while her sons are still in infancy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.0.37.194 (talk) 15:18, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Antiope was Theseus' first wife by most accounts. —₄¹7 「話」 15:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

A zany edit to Theseus

(Copied from User talk:Wetman)

A new edit has been submitted to this article. External links were removed. The edit presents a new, well articulated argument that goes against traditional views. Kirkus, one of the most respected national review organizations finds it "intriguing" yet you find it an amateur's blurb and you delete it. Some online publications carry it on their news page, yet you do not want it included in Wikipedia. At any rate, the external link issue is a valid one. I will consider a needed external link under the External Link category. If you have something positive to contribute, please do and leave the amateur blurbs for a different category.Geosop (talk) 07:05, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

George Sopasakis opened an account, as New User:Geosop, 23 December 2007 with the apparent purpose of entering a puff of his own decidedly quirky self-published "book" linking Theseus, Gilgamesh, the Egyptian Book of the Dead and... Jesus!——with a link to a website offering his book for sale. I reverted the edit. His User Contributions sufficiently tell the story. A look at WP:COI explains why this material is a conflict of interest, as well as being not acceptably encyclopedic. The edit has been reverted a second time. These posts have been copied to Talk:Theseus where they would be pursued, if that were necessary. --Wetman (talk) 08:32, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

From WP:COI: Revealing the names of pseudonymous editors is in all cases against basic policy. Who has written the material should be irrelevant so long as Wikipedia policies are closely adhered to. The imputation of conflict of interest is not by itself a good reason to remove sound material from articles. Closeness to a subject does not mean you're incapable of being neutral. From WP: Fringe theories: If the idea is notable in some other way such as coverage in the media, the idea may still be included in articles devoted to the idea itself or non-scientific contexts. If a notable fringe theory is primarily described by amateurs and self-published texts, verifiable and reliable criticism of the fringe theory need not be published in a peer reviewed journal.
Additional comments: Obviously I am new to this community. After my first edit to Theseus, a fellow Wikipedian (not Wetman) alerted me to inappropriate inclusion of external links. By paying closer attention to the rules, his point became clear. I corrected my mistake and re-edited my contribution, removing my two external links to a Press Release and the author’s book site. However, I was required to source my edit in a verifiable and neutral sense. I used the suggested ISBN number method of reference instead of the source book website. As the primary focus of my edit was the listing of an interesting notable idea and not the book itself, I considered the future listing of a related press release or other third party media site (under the external link category). I promptly alerted both Wikipedians who objected to my first edit about this second edit and asked for possible contributions as I am new to this community and the nerves are obviously frail. Unfortunately, if you notice Wetman’s answer, you will detect words such as zany, puff, quirky, “book”. In addition is obvious that he has a content dispute ( and… Jesus!). His bias is evident in his vocabulary of choice yet he acted appropriately when he listed this argument in the Theseus talk page, a move I should have initiated beforehand. From WP:COI: Avoid using … judgmental terms — this is accusatory and discouraging. It is not helpful, nor reason to delete an article. Do not use conflict of interest as an excuse to gain the upper hand in a content dispute.
I would appreciate your constructive input, but please leave all unwelcomed personal attacks at the door. Such tactics distract and discredit you and your arguments while often are indicative of immaturity and faulty reasoning. I wish to add back to Theseus this second edit deleted by Wetman:

 Theseus, Gilgamesh and Jesus

A new theory emerged in 2007, connecting Theseus to Gilgamesh of Uruk and the biblical Jesus. These three pivotal stories from antiquity are found to share the very same substructure.
The Thread of Ariadne (The TOA) ISBN 978-1-59526-826-6, a book by George Sopasakis, demonstrates a curious alignment of Theseus and the Minotaur with the older Epic of Gilgamesh and the younger story of Jesus of Nazareth. Geosop (talk) 03:46, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly support Wetman's deletion of the material as COI and unencyclopedic. Ford MF (talk) 06:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

No one logs on at Wikipedia explicitly to sell their own book, whether under a transparent pseudonym— as in this case— nor under a cloak of anonymity either: it just isn't done. A blurb is a blurb: no personal attack has been made, ignoring assertions of my immaturity and faulty reasoning yada yada yada. A thesis that is sound often does not require a vanity publisher. This "thesis" has not "emerged" save in this attempt on Wikipedia, where not every passing fringe theory gets promoted. User:Geosop needs to be discouraged from attempts at manipulating Wikipedia's rules of fair play. --Wetman (talk) 14:15, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

"theseus wasnt king'

theseus wasnt a king of Athens but was a legendary founder of Athens. theseus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.82.142.14 (talk) 21:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

according to the midnight summer's dream, Theseus is the duke of Athens. Does this help?

"But when Theseus became King he showed himself as intelligent as he was powerful." Thuc. 2.15

(ἐβασίλευσε - reigned, many scholars agree he was monarchical if not tyrannical, certainly more powerful than a duke. Have a look at John N Davie's "Theseus the King in Fifth-Century Athens" in Greece & Rome 2ndSeries (1982) pages 25-34 of that journal). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.168.117.58 (talk) 06:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Dubious

Seeing as it's left...and needs fixing:

"Phaedra, Theseus's first wife, bore Theseus two sons, Demophon and Acamas. While these two were still in their infancy, Phaedra fell in love with Hippolytus, Theseus's son by Antiope (Shakespeare confused the two names of these Amazons; the Queen Hippolyta and her sister Antiope, saying Hippolyta was the one who married him when in fact it was Antiope). ^{[dubious – discuss]}"

Whoa, okay. Source for ALL of this?

My source for Theseus being married to Hippolyta/Hippolyte is this: Who's Who in Greek and Roman Mythology by David Kravitz, page 226. I also have several other sources, if you're interested. So I'm changing it to the correct version. If anyone has a contradictory source, then great, post it here ;) Thanks! BlackPearl14^{[talkies!•contribs!]} 03:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Ancient sources are conflicting. For an early literalistic attempt at constructing a "biography" of Theseus, Plutarch's Vita is now in the External links section.--Wetman (talk) 21:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay; perhaps we can add a section with information regarding this conflict, or, better yet, a sub-section to give this out. As far as I have known, Theseus/Hippolyta was the first marriage, after the "affair" (so to speak, not quite, though) with Ariadne. I'll look into this further. BlackPearl14^{[talkies!•contribs!]} 03:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I think that Plutarch is more reliable source than a modern author. I am curious as to what other sources for Hippolyta being the wife of Theseus do you have? Yolanna (talk) 11:31, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Spurious (?) details

The "tell-it-in-your-own-words" school of myth-reading is always imaginatively at work in Wikipedia. Greek myth exists in literary sources, visual sources and interpretations. Isn't it true that none of the following anecdotal details are supported? (Wetman (talk) 21:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)):

• The Pallantides were extremely cocky and self-opinionated. For years they were unwelcome there, fighting in the streets and lounging around the palace. Being jealous of Androgeus' success, they set an ambush one evening as he walked back to his lodgings after competing for the day. He fought bravely, but was heavily outnumbered. They killed him and left his body in the street.

• In the morning, the whole town was surrounded. [The overnight ferry from Crete is a modern innovation.]

• What Theseus didn't understand was, although he had killed the assassins of Androgeus, Minos still demanded tribute. So it was that Theseus volunteered to travel to Crete, and there, confront the Minotaur.

• Theseus accidentally tripped on a rock and the Minotaur instantly woke.

• Ariadne realized that Theseus had only used her

Sorry I "lined" the whole thing above, it was messing up the screens I used (I tried it from different monitors); I believe I must concur with you, I have no anecdotal evidence, but I will be sure to look into the very few that I think may have some correct aspects. BlackPearl14^{[talkies!•contribs!]} 03:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Fixed the formatting glitch. If any of these anecdotal details appear in the classical sources, well, just put them back in, I suppose.--Wetman (talk) 07:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Great ;) BlackPearl14^{[talkies!•contribs!]} 01:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Theseus the Coward, Barbarian and Murderer.

I am obscessed with Prince Asterion, the Minotaur, the son of Queen Pasiphae and the Marathon Bull. He was a bull-faced man who was stronger than a bull and smarter than man. The method of which he was killed as described in Wikipedia gave me the conclusion that Prince Theseus was a murdering, glory-hungry coward who couldn't care less about anything but fame and lovemaking to women. In the true story, Theseus fought the Minotaur fair and square in combat that could have been by anyone. But Theseus teased the Minotaur, making him too mad to think like a man. At the proper moment, Theseus cast the lethal SWORD STROKE into him. SWORD! SWORD! Not club, not his own horn, not his bare hands. Theseus fended the beast off those ways, but he killed the Minotaur with a SWORD. I hear these miserable scribes of Theseus attacking the noble man-beast while he slept and killing him by beating him to death with his fists? COWARDLY! BARBARIC! DISHONORABLE! And then, he had the nerve to just ignore the man-bull as if he never existed. Not caring about his feelings or the fact that he was the ONLY victim of that stupid tribute. The Minotaur was just a forgotten footnote to his glory! What did it matter if Deucalion drugged the Minotaur to be a flesh-eating beast, or that he cried and begged for freedom and love when he was not asleep? For those who believed this was the method of how Theseus killed the Minotaur, I wrote about hidden fates of EVERYONE responsible for Asterion's misery and death. Everyone forgot about Pasiphae,the Minotaur's mother. She was the daughter of Helios the Sun God with great magical power. Married to untruthful Minos, she made him ejaculate serpents and insects to devour the women Minos ravaged. Her magic would avenge Asterion's death. She was saddened to know that she and her favored daughter Phaedra were the only people who loved the Minotaur. Deadelus imprisoned the poor creature in a lonely maze-like labyrinth. Minos had him starved, the only sanctuary being Pasiphae and Phaedra's love. Minos himself forbade them from comforting the Minotaur, threatening to have him executed if they saw him again. Minos' cousin Deucalion used the mutant as a tool to discredit Crete and Athens, applying that Minos fed Athenian children to the Minotaur to avenge Minos' son's death in Athens. When Pasiphae learned how Asterion was killed, her vengeance started with Deadelus. Helios made Icarus fly too close to the sun and fall to his doom. When Minos refused Pasiphae's warning to pursue Theseus, she asked Hera to help Deadelus' defenders drown Minos in scolding water. Pasiphae and Hera convinced Zeus to kill Deadelus to avenge his son. Pasiphae bought Crete to financial desolation. Pasiphae finally attacked Theseus with her magic. She made Theseus charge back into Crete and kill Deucalion's entire army. She then made him abandon Ariadne on Naxos and spread lies about why he did it. then, it was Pasiphae's turn to hurt Theseus horribly. When her plan to make Aegeus commit suicide failed. She allowed Theseus to greet his father so that she could make him strangle and beat him to death. She warned Theseus that she would make him kill every Athenian unless he atoned for killing the Minotaur. Theseus, no match for Pasiphae's vengeance, prayed for Poseidon's help. Before Pasipahe could carry out her threat, Athena and Poseidon presented her with Asterion's soul, now in the form of a beautiful white bull. They promised to send his soul to Heaven if she made peace with Theseus. She complied, and Asterion's soul would know eternal happiness, love and peace. I've always stated that every action had reactions no matter how heroic and selfless they were, so the action must be laid out wisely. Theseus' actions were not. Pasiphae punsihed him for it. MINOTAURS RULE! 24.191.81.196 (talk) 03:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

First off: when you write on Wikipedia, please don't try to tab each paragraph, it screws up the codes. Secondly: this is a great story.... post it on fiction press (click here). Or, if you want it on Wikipedia, find me a reliable source (not just you, something in print or on the web that's written by an expert or the news), and I'll add it in to the Minotaur Article (post it on my talk page, which you can access by clicking the talkies! part of my signature). Thirdly: this is something that you are obsessed with (see your own note above), so really... think about it - we write, based not on obsessions, but on cold, hard fact. So no obsession-fringed stories ;) Thanks, BlackPearl14^{[talkies!•contribs!]} 04:43, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

yep. you could write a fiction bout this. minotaur was a killer, and greek people thought of him as a hero. the only thing tht describes minotaur is Warcraft, which explains taurens as a peaceful but strong creatures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.174.116 (talk) 03:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

clarification needed

On Pirithous' behalf they travelled to the underworld, domain of Persephone and her husband, Hades. Hades pretended to offer them hospitality and laid out a feast, but as soon as the two visitors sat down, snakes coiled around their feet and held them fast. In some versions, the stone itself grew and attached itself to their thighs.

When Heracles came into Hades for his twelfth task, he freed Theseus but the earth shook when he attempted to liberate Pirithous, and Pirithous had to remain in Hades for eternity. When Heracles had pulled Theseus from the chair where he was trapped, some of his thigh stuck to it; this explains the supposedly lean thighs of Athenians. When Theseus returned to Athens, he found that the Dioscuri had taken Helen and Aethra back to Sparta.

this part is very weird. where did the chair come from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.174.116 (talk) 03:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the portion of the article which states Hyppolotus's cult was for Aphrodite

Did not Hyppolotus, hate Aphrodite leading to his punishment of having his mother Phaedra fall in love with him and his eventual death and exiling by his father? Why would a cult for Hyppolotus continue his distaste for Aphrodite and worship of Artemis?--Nonymous-raz (talk) 04:10, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Theseus and the chair.

It wasn't part of his thighs that were left behind. That seems to be a Victorian-tinged euphemism. He left a chunk of his butt behind. Hence the allegedy small butts of Greek men (I have very little empirical data on the subject). Ifnkovhg (talk) 00:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

"Lay"

Talking of euphemisms (see above), I changed "laid with" to "lay with", which is what it means - but do people always understand such polite language today? "Coupled with", perhaps?

Rogersansom (talk) 17:21, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Did Theseus ever encounter Medusa in Greek myth?

(Note: I am aware of the difference between Theseus and Perseus.) In Dante's Inferno, canto IX, lines 50-60, the Furies say (I'm paraphrasing) "It's a pity Medusa didn't petrify Theseus when she had the chance to do so. We won't make that mistake again, har har."

Except I can find no mention of an encounter between Theseus and Medusa when Theseus was in the underworld. The only hits I can find are on sites that are obviously confusing Perseus with Theseus.

Help... it's driving me nuts.93.92.153.12 (talk) 13:35, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Fact?

There were no sources sited for this sentence, and there is no proof that Shakespeare was looking to Chaucer or Boccaccio on this issue. So, I deleted the sentence below:

Shakespeare draws on Geoffrey Chaucer's Knight's Tale and Giovanni Boccaccio's Teseida, whence the use of the anachronistic term "Duke": when Boccaccio and Chaucer were writing in the fourteenth century, there was an actual Duke of Athens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.145.223.110 (talk) 04:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Bacchylides

Yeah so, does anybody want to acknowledge Bacchylides (Βακχυλίδης or Bakchylides etc) as a source for the Theseus myth? One of the earlier sources for this particular story (in regards to Ovid, Plut, Ap, Hyg...) Check out the Dithyrambs 17-18.

Perseus TUFTS Bacchylides Dithyrambs 17 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.168.117.58 (talk) 06:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Questions and comments

1. "Aegeus, one of the primordial kings of Athens, found a bride"

How can Aegeus be a king of Athens if Theseus himself founded Athens?

2. I can't quite understand this sentence: "At Athens, Aegeus was joined by Medea, who had fled Corinth after slaughtering the children she had borne Jason, and had taken up a new consort in Aegeus."

The problem is that the sentence is ambiguous so I'm not sure who is who. This sentcence is messy and needs to be rewritten. The way I read it is: "At Athens, Aegeus was joined by Medea who fled Corinth after slaughtering the children she had borne (Jason), taking up Aegeus as her new consort." If my interpretation is correct, feel free to use my sentence and replace the current one otherwise rework it as needed because the way it is now is not good.

3. "Theseus was called the Mother Dog for many reasons."

What are the reasons?

4. "On the way to Marathon, Theseus took shelter from a storm in the hut of an ancient woman named Hecale."

Ancient or old?

5. "In another version, King Minos of Crete had waged war with the Athenians and was successful."

Who wrote this version?

6. "On the return journey Theseus abandoned Ariadne on the island of Naxos."

What was the reason for doing that?

7. "In other versions of the story, the god Dionysus appeared to Theseus and told him that he had already chosen Ariadne for his bride"

What is the source for this alternate story?

8. "Pirithous took up his arms and the pair met to do battle, but were so impressed with each other they took an oath of friendship"

Impressed by what?

9. "Theseus, believed either to be in the company of Hercules, or of his own accord, had been on a quest in the land of the Amazons, a race of all-female warriors who reproduced with men for children (but killed off the males)."

This sentence needs to be fixed.

10. "According to some versions of the story, Hippolytus had scorned Aphrodite to become a devotee of Artemis"

What is the source for this version?

11. In the "Phaedra and Hippolytus" section there are too many versions but no sources at all.

ICE77 (talk) 07:54, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

bad link

Reference 18 has a link for Athenagoras that points to a disambiguation page. Please change the reference to point to the correct Athenagoras. 4.249.63.79 (talk) 15:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I haven't seen the Kerenyi page and note to which ref 18 refers, but the citation is clearly meant to be Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae 13.4 (557a) where one does find the reference to Helen and Theseus. The clue to the typo is this 557a, which is one way of referring to pages in Athenaeus. Nowhere in Athenagoras of Athens (who must be meant here) does one find mention of Theseus and Helen, though Helen does appear at the beginning of his Embassy for the Christians in a different context. I don't have access to Kerenyi, so I don't want to change too much, but I will try to get the proper info in. The Cardiff Chestnut (talk) 16:24, 12 August 2011 (UTC)