Talk:Tibeto-Burman languages

soure?

Hi.

Where does this classification come from? Ethnologue? — ishwar  (SPEAK) 06:07, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)

Missing group - Tibetic

(Copied stuff from Talk:Tibetan language)

Ethnologue lists the order of classification for the Tibetan language as Sino-Tibetan, Tibeto-Burman, Himalayish, Tibeto-Kanauri, Tibetic, and then the Tibetan language. Wikipedia seems to skip the group Tibetic. See this link: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90303 Any thoughts? ---User:Hottentot

Ethnologue has a lot of wierd stuff on it. The most normal classification is that given by Benedict in his Conspectus, but I and many think that the subgrouping of the Tibeto-Burman laguages is merely speculation. --Nathan hill 18:38, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I recommend amending Wikipedia to reflect the Ethnologue classification. At points where serious modern scholarship suggests a subclass is grouped incorrectly in the Ethnologue, it's sensible to include links at that point in Wikipedia hierarchy to the alternative scholarship. But we need at least a straw man hierarchy to start with, and the Ethnologue is the best candidate. Nathan, have you read the Conspectus or do you have a copy? From what I can find in a web search [1], PK Benedict did not disagree with the existence of a Tibeto-Burman language family. You must be referring to classification choices made further out in the tree. For our education can you give us the classification of Tibetan per Benedict to show where it differs from the Ethnologue? technopilgrim 18:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I wouldnt recommend Ethnologue: they are too general. Better to use more specific sources. I'll provide references at some unknown date. peace – ishwar  (speak) 06:32, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Seems to me that in the absence of other cited genealogies, ethnologue is okay (so long as we note that we are using it). However, ethnologue often makes a lot of strange choices, and I think that, whenever possible, we should try to find a better, more specific, source for each individual language family. john k 06:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

There have been 4 major classifications (i think). Benedict's (in the 1970s) was the most influential. There is a recent one made in the 90s. I dont see any problem with including all 4 classifications. it may be interesting for readers to compare them. it would also be indicative of how much more research is needed to determine the details of this family. many languages havent been adequately described (some only have words lists written by missionaries). Ethnologue does have bible translators in these areas, so their classification may be not bad. but, i wouldnt really know, not having read about this family. peace – ishwar  (speak) 20:52, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

If you have info on the other versions, this would definitely be the way to go, I think. john k 22:00, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Complete Classification and List of Languages

I added a complete list of languages and complete classification based on the Ethnologue. Comments are welcome especially concerning classification. If you know of more languages or dialects I have missed, please add them. Imperial78

copying here for now

• Bai (Northern (dialects: Nujiang, Lanping), Central (dialects: Jianchuan, Heqing, Lanping, Eryuan, Yunlong), Southern: (dialects: Dali, Xiangyun))
• Himalayish
  • Baima
  • Mahakiranti
    • Kham-Magar-Chepang-Sunwari
      • Chepang (Bujhyal, Chepang, Kusunda, Wayu)
      • Kham (Gamale Kham, Sheshi Kham, Eastern Parbate, Western Parbate)
      • Magar (Eastern Magar, Western Magar,Raji)
      • Sunwari (Bahing, Sunwar)
    • Kiranti
      • Tomyang
      • Eastern (Athpariya, Bantawa, Rungchenbung, Belhariya, Chhintange, Chhulung, Chukwa, Eastern Meohang, Kulung, Northern Lorung, Limbu, Lambichhong, Southern Lorung, Lumba-Yakkha, Moinba, Nachering, Pongyong, Phangduwali, Puma, Dungmali, Camling, Western Meohang, Saam, Sampang, Waling, Yakha, Yakha, Yamphu, Yamphe)
      • Western (Dumi, Jerung, Koi, Khaling, Lingkhim, Raute, Thulung, Tilung, Wambule)
    • Newar (Newari, Pahri)
  • Tibeto-Kanauri
    • Dzalakha
    • Lepcha
    • Western Himalayish (Byangsi, Chaudangsi, Darmiya, Rangkas, Baraamu, Thangmi, Rawat, Gahri, Chitkuli Kinnauri, Jangshung, Kinnauri, Kaike, Pattani, Tinani, Bhoti Kinnauri, Shumcho, Sunam, Tukpa, Kanashi, Rongpo)
    • Tibetic
      • Tshangla
      • Dhimal (Dhimal, Toto)
      • Tamangic (Chantyal, Eastern Gurung, Western Gurung, Northern Ghale, Southrn Ghale, Kutang Ghale, Manangba, Nar Phu, Seke, Thakali, Eastern Tamang, Western Tamang, Eastern Gorkha Tamang, Northwestern Tamang, Southwestern Tamang)
      • Tibetan (Classical Tibetan, Zhang-zhung, Central Tibetan, Atuence, Dolpo, Humla, Jad, Kyerung, Nubri, Lhomi, Lowa, Mugom, Walungge, Panang, Stod Bhoti, Helambu Sherpa, Spiti Bhoti, Kagate, Tichurong, Tseku, Tsum, Dakpakha, Bumthangkha, Nyenkha, Olekha, Chalikha, Khengkha, Kurtokha, Amdo Tibetan, Choni, Khams Tibetan, Adap, Brokkat, Chocangacakha, Dzongkha, Groma, Jirel, Lakha, Lunanakha, Layakha, Brokpake, Sikkimese, Sherpa, Naaba, Sherdukpen, Thudam, Balti, Ladakhi, Changthang, Takpa, Purik, Zangskari, Gongduk, Lhokpu)
• Jingpho-Konyak-Bodo
  • Jingpho-Luish (Jingpho, Hkauri, Hka-hku, Jili, Singpho, Taman, Chairel, Andro, Sengmai, Kado, Sak, Chakpa, Phayeng)
  • Konyak-Bodo-Garo (Deori (Chutiya), Bodo, Moran, Dimasa, Tripuri (Kok Borok), Lalung (Tiwa), Riang, Kachari, Garo, Megam, A’tong, Koch, Rabha, Ruga, Chang, Konyak, Nocte, Khiamniungan, Wancho, Phom, Tase (Tangsa), Tutsa, Moshang, Shangge, Mon)
• Karen
  • Pa’o
  • Zayein
  • Pwo (Eastern, Northern, Western, Phrae)
  • Sgaw-Bghai
    • Bghai (Lahta, Padaung, Bwe, Geko, Geba)
    • Brek
    • Kayah (Eastern Kayah, Western Kayah, Yinbaw, Yintale, Manumanaw)
    • Sgaw (Sgaw, Paku, Mopwa, Wewaw)
• Kuki-Chin-Naga
  • Kuki-Chin (Bawm, Haka, Shonshe, Ngawn, Zotung, Darlong, Hmar, Mizo, Pankhu, Zahao, Senthang, Tawr, Paang, Kyao, Lamkang, Anal, Kom, Kohlreng, Purum Naga, Tarao, Chiru, Aimol, Purum, Kharam, Langrong, Southern Luhupa, Hrangkhol, Biate, Sekechep, Siyin, Tedim (Dialects: Sokte, Kamhau), Fallam (Hallam), Thado, Gangte, Chothe, Monsang, Moyon, Paite, Vuite, Ralte, Simte, Vaiphei, Yos, Zome, Mro, Daai, Nga La, Khumi Awa, Khumi, Khami, Ngala, Mara, Tlongsai, Hawthai, Sabeu, Chinbok, Mun (Ng’men), Sho, Khyeng, Khyang, Thayetmo, Minbu, Chinbon, Lemyo, Bualkhaw, Welaung, Zyphe)
  • Naga (Mao, Angami, Khezha, Ntenyi, Rengma, Meluri, Pochuri, Chokri (Chakrima), Sumi (including Zumomi dialect), Poumei, Lotha, Ao, Mongesen, Tengsa, Sangtam, Yimchungru, Khoibu, Tangkhul, Kupome,Maring, Puimei, Rongmei (Nruanghmei), Liangmai, Koireng, Inpui, Thangal (Khoirao), Maram, Mzieme, Zeme)
• Lolo-Burmese
  • Nakhi (Moso)
  • Phula
  • Burmese (Achang, Zaiwa, Pela, Hpon, Lashi, Maru, Chaungtha, Intha, Arakanese, Burmese, Taungyo, Tavoyan, Yangbye, Xiandao)
  • Loloish
    • Northern
      • Lisu (Lisu, Lipo)
      • Samei
      • Yi (Daignet, Duampu, Nameji, Pai-lang, Tosu, Thongho, Pakishan, Kangsiangyiang, Kaiokio, Nee, Laichau, Tudza, Nuoku, Liangshan, P’ou-la, Phupha, Chökö, Central Yi, Dayao Yi, Miqie Yi, Southern Lolopho Yi, Naluo Yi, Wumeng Yi, Wuding-Luquan Yi, Wusa Yi, Sichuan Yi, Laghuu, Southern Yi, Mantsi, Awu Yi, Axi Yi (Ahi), Azhe Yi, Sani Yi, Eshan-Xinping Yi, Yuanjiang-Mojiang Yi, Xishan Lalu Yi, Eastern Lalu Yi, Western Lalu Yi, Western Yi, Guizhou Yi, Southeastern Lolo Yi)
    • Southern (Biyo, Kaduo, Honi, Akha, Ako, Asong, Hani, Sansu, Hila, Lahu, Lahu Shi, Mahei, Phana, Menghwa, Bisu, Côông, Mpi, Phunoi, Pyen, Buyan Jinuo, Youle Jinuo, Ugong, Khoany, Mung, Hwethom, Khaskhong)
    • Unclassified (Laopang, Lopi, Nusu, Zauzou, Ache Yi, Limi Yi, Mili Yi, Muji Yi, Poluo Yi, Pula Yi, Puwa Yi)
• Mru
• Dura
• Meithei
• Mikir (Amri, Kamri)
• North Assam (Darang Deng, Geman Deng, Adi, Galo Adi, Apatani, Bugun, Idu-Mishmi, Digaro-Mishmi, Miri, Miju-Mishmi, Na, Nisi, Yano, Lho-pa, Sulung)
• Nungish (Drung, Lama, Norra, Nung, Rawang, Krangku, Lungmi, Zithung, Metu, Melam, Tamalu, Tukiumu)
• Tangut-Qiang (Tangut (Sihia), Northern Qiang, Ersu, Guiqiong, Muya, Namuyi, Northern Pumi, Southern Pumi, Queyu, Southern Qiang, Manyak, Menia, Muli, Shixing, Dzorgai, Korste, Pingfang, Thochu, Zhaba, Horpa, Shangzhai, Guanyinqao, Jiarong)
• Tujia (Northern, Southern)
• Unclassified (Anu, Ayi, Hruso, Khamba, Lui, Palu, Pao, Sajalong, Zakhring)

The list contains a language called Kom. There is an African language called Kom and the link from this list goes there now. Obvieously, a disambiguation page is necessary here. The list should be converted into a tree of articles and stubs. Nannus 21:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 14:47, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

hello

hello —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.72.35.116 (talk) 03:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Koro language

Koro language should also be included. ~~Andrew Keenan Richardson~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.151.183.161 (talk) 23:00, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

History of the name

This article seems to rely on Van Driem's account of the history of "Tibeto-Burman", a number of variations of which occur in his publications. Unfortunately that account is made quite confusing by his habit of always using his own definition of the term (the family including Chinese, which nearly everyone else calls "Sino-Tibetan"). For example, in the Languages of the Himalayas (2001) p. 334 he says "Klaproth outlined the Tibeto-Burman family" and "Klaproth observed that Tibeto-Burman included Chinese". But in a paper in 2008 he acknowledges that Klaproth did not name any of his Asian phyla. So he means that in 1823 Klaproth outlined a family containing Tibetan, Burmese and Chinese but not Thai, Vietnamese or Mon, namely the family Van Driem calls "Tibeto-Burman".

The term "Tibeto-Burman" was first used in 1856 by James Richardson Logan, in the obvious sense of a family consisting of Tibetan, Burmese and dozens of less well-known languages related to these two, and later authors seem to use it the same way. Indeed Shafer avoided the term precisely because it denoted a group that he felt was not a valid subgroup of ST. But this is obscured because Van Driem just says "Tibeto-Burman" all the time. As far as I can see no-one before him used the term for a family that included Chinese. Kanguole 00:22, 29 October 2011 (UTC)