Talk:Torture

Page Structure

Plenty of good content here, but the article has so many sections and subsections and quotations that it feels unwieldy. I'm not sure how to clean it up, but suggestions would be great... Ocaasi (talk) 17:51, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

History of Torture: new article

I agree with spliting the article in two: "Torture" and "History of Torture". The reader is either interested in the historical aspects of torture or in its modern use. Fabio Pereira 12:25, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I would say that there's more than enough information on history to make a new page for it. I agree with Fabio. Geniusguy445 (talk) 22:09, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I Agree. Split it in two. DanielDemaret (talk) 09:21, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Agree - Looking at the article now and how I feel a lot more can be added, I would be more than happy to help create and write this new page. Skullbird11 (talk) 01:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Since all seem to be in favor, I intend to split the article in two within a couple of weeks. I am just saying this now to to give others time to protest. DanielDemaret (talk) 09:40, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Problems with 'Use of Evidence Obtained Under Torture' section

Use of Evidence Obtained Under Torture section is speculative and off topic as it only talks about modern nations that have been accused of using torture and has nothing to to with how evidence obtained was used as such the entire section either needs renaming, rewriting or removing. especially as there are so many on topic examples and topics that are relevant. such as the Chinese use of Water Torture on prisoners and the widespread use of torture across Europe And America to gain confession about witchcraft and heresy ... Mike 10:50, 10 Jan 2011 (GMT)

Mike raises a good point: I hope he will add some footnoted info about confessions of witchcraft which I understand was the last time evidence adduced by torture was allowed in Anglo-American legal process--until the Bush administration. I would add that this section (admission of evidence) might fit better up in the section on laws against torture. I am too busy this afternoon to do the cut and paste and stylistic editing required.ElijahBosley ^{(talk ☞)} 21:23, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

This topic requires further disambiguation

This article needs to be modified. The subject as discussed so far is not "Torture", but "The Use of Torture for Political Purposes" or "Torture as definied by the UN Convention Against Torture". I have a problem with the hi-jacking of the word "Torture", even if by a respected body such as the U.N., to refer only to its use politically. This distinction needs to be made clear on the "disambiguation page", and either two Wiki pages created, or this article edited.

A great deal of severe interpersonal assault employs torture as defined by various dictionaries, eg.

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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/torture

tor·ture noun \ˈtȯr-chər\

Definition of TORTURE 1a : anguish of body or mind : agony b : something that causes agony or pain 2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure 3: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining

Origin of TORTURE Middle French, from Old French, from Late Latin tortura, from Latin tortus, past participle of torquēre to twist; probably akin to Old High German drāhsil turner, Greek atraktos spindle First Known Use: 1540'

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The seriousness and consequence of these assaults are diminished when we don't allow them to be described, properly, as torture because our popular culture has allowed that word to be inappropriately narrowed to something smaller (or other) than its original meaning. 70.30.27.3 (talk) 15:26, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Umm.. why the hell is there a picture of GW on the top of this page? That makes no sense at all and also shows extreme bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.219.228.221 (talk) 19:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Torture instruments pictures

Leaving a link here to my message on Commons. --Elitre (talk) 15:42, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Problem with the year 1722 in the reference

I have a problem with this text 'Sweden and Prussia were the first to do so in 1722 and 1754' When I checked the references, 'Torture" by Edward Peters', 1722 is supposed to come AFTER 1734. 1734 seems to have more sources as the year much, but not all, torture was abolished in 1734. DanielDemaret (talk) 09:27, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

The Swedish version of this article upholds 1734 as one year when the torture was limited by law, but also states, which for various reasons seems more accurate the following: "I Gustav III:s kungliga brev av 27 augusti 1772 befalldes, att alla pinorum och tortyrinstrument i riket skulle förstöras, men lagföreskriften om "svårare fängelse" upphävdes först genom kunglig förordning den 12 september 1868." translation: "In a royal letter by Gustav III of August 27 1772 he commands that all 'rooms of pain' and torture instrument should be destroyed, but the use of 'severe imprisonment' was kept until September 12th 1868. " 'Severe imprisonment' usually meant that the prisoner was hung up in a very uncomfortable way, but not killed. If there are no protests, I will take away the reference to the year 1722 next week since it seems to be wrong. DanielDemaret (talk) 09:38, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Inappropriate Redirect

This page is linked to a redirect from "German Folk Music". While some people may regard such music as being tortuous, this is clearly an inappropriate / malicious link. Unfortunately I do not how to fix redirects. Can someone sort this out please? Coolavokig (talk) 11:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

You might need to purge the page. This vandalism was already reverted days ago.TMCk (talk) 15:04, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
My mistake. It was still there but is fixed now.TMCk (talk) 15:07, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Picture in section on Early Modern period.

Don't know if this is deliberate, but the picture in the Early Modern period, section 1.3, the picture of the Native American scalping someone says 'an 1873'. Is this correct? I'm not sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymousnerd (talk • contribs) 09:58, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Alternate Definition of Torture

The UNCAT definition is the most commonly cited, yet this article omits the fact that the Declaration of Tokyo uses an much broader definition which is preferred by some:

For the purpose of this Declaration, torture is defined as the deliberate, systematic or wanton infliction of physical or mental suffering by one or more persons acting alone or on the orders of any authority, to force another person to yield information, to make a confession, or for any other reason.

As James Jaranson points out (in "The Science and Politics of Rehabilitating Torture Survivors," in Caring for Victims of Torture, by Michael K. Popkin):

"The World Medical Association's definition is broader and does not require that the perpetrator be affiliated with a government or act officially with governmental approval. Consequently, this definition includes torture as part of domestic or ritualistic abuse, as well as in criminal activities. On the other hand, the United Nations' definition clearly limits the torture to that perpetrated, directly or indirectly, by those acting in an official capacity and appears to exclude 1) torture perpetrated by unofficial rebels or terrorists who ignore national or international mandates; 2) random violence during war; and 3) punishment allowed by national laws, even if the punishment uses techniques similar to those used by torturers. Some professionals in the torture rehabilitation field believe that this definition is too restrictive and that the definition of politically motivated torture should be broadened to include all acts of organized violence."

Also, I find it odd that in the literature there is virtually no reference to one of the commonest motivations for torturing someone: entertainment. Nearly all publications assume that people are tortured in order to punish them or to force them to give up information. Torture for fun has been ignored, legally and scientifically. Cmacauley (talk) 18:34, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Do you have any sources about people who tortured for fun, or studies on it. I know there are several historical counts of torture for fun occuring in the dark ages. I believe count dracula is a perfect example.MilkStraw532 (talk) 18:39, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I have never seen a study on this topic, but obviously there are many references to it in popular literature. Cmacauley (talk) 18:56, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I see now that "sadistic gratification of the torturer" is included in the introductory paragraph. I do not know where to insert a discussion of alternative definitions of torture, though; it would not seem appropriate for the introduction. Perhaps a separate paragraph on Definition? Cmacauley (talk) 16:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism or something else?

"The United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment boob came into force in June 1987."

"Boob", really? 70.29.244.213 (talk) 08:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)