Talk:Train station

Too many images

There are far too many images in this article, and none of them correspond to the section they are writen by. Too many of them also show architecture of grand stations buildings when we also need pictures of features of basic and medium-sized stations. There are now several images trailing beneath the page. I believe in WP:BOLD but I don't want to dive in and throw out a load of images. Anywikiuser (talk) 16:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Some more have been re-added and the train topics list is at the bottom. Is this wise? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:26, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

There are definately too many photos on the page, to the point where it is splitting up the text making the page look messy and making it harder to read. I suggest only including pictures that illustrate a subject in the article or are of historic importance. Villafanuk 16:33, 27 Jan 2010

Surely, as a Top-importance rail article, the {{train topics}} should be upper right? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:48, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. That's where it was before until VillaFan moved it. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:47, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually after checking the page history again I'm wrong that VillaFanUK has overall actually removed one photo and so didn't actually added any :o. They've just moved them closer to the top which confused me. I'll move the {{train topics}} back up to the top, as that appears to be the consensus. Still there is an issue with too many images on the page. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:55, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Railway station - a rethink!

Having done some more research on this I have had a rethink on the re-titling issue. In short, I am now of the view that the article should be retitled simply to "Station" because it is:

• Widespread. "Station" on its own appears to be used far more often in the literature than "train station", "railroad station", etc.
• Authoritative. Rail authorities, including the International Union of Railways, use "station" without a qualifier
• Primary topic. Major dictionaries list the primary meaning of "station" as "railway/railroad station"; other uses are qualified e.g. "bus station", "underground station".
• Neutral. It avoids the US v. Rest of the World debate about "railroad" and "railway" and the traditional v. colloquial debate about "train station" etc.

Of course we would need to set up the hatnotes and disambiguation page accordingly.

Views? --Bermicourt (talk) 05:05, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

See the latest amendment of the use of the phrase "train station" with the reference added. This further reinforces the view that we should move to "station". --Bermicourt (talk) 07:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Totally agree with all your research. Entirely happy with everything you say. I support the move to "Station". As you say, other uses of that word employ a qualifier ('police station', 'space station', 'bus station'). The opening paragraph can make the point that the correct qualifier here (if one is wanted) is 'railroad station' (US) or 'railway station' (rest of world); it can even mention the newer phenomenon of the 'train station' too! Timothy Titus ^{Talk To TT} 08:36, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose - Station can mean many things there for it should remain a disam page. BritishWatcher (talk) 14:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

We know station can mean many things, but check out bullet 3: authoritative sources such as dictionaries put the primary meaning as railway station. The proposal therefore follows standard Wiki practice. --Bermicourt (talk) 21:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Im not convinced Train station is the clear primary topic (enough to justify the main spot). Its best to keep the dab page at the primary spot although it should be reorganised, Train station / Bus station should be at the top of the page not near the bottom. This page has over 500 views a day, Station gets under 100 so its not clear that most of the people looking for train station just type in "station". BritishWatcher (talk) 21:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - my personal experience from many years in Britain is station in everyday's spoke language. -- KlausFoehl (talk) 13:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

• Comment - From Concise Oxford Dictionary, tenth edition, 1999: "station  • n. 1 a place where passenger trains stop on a railway line, typically with platforms and buildings. 2 a place where a specified activity or service is based: a radar station. ..." and so on up to 6, none of which (other than 1) mention transport. I do however prefer "railway station" over "train station", and "station" is I suppose an acceptable compromise. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:23, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Comment - 'Station' as a word essentially means 'a fixed point'. I'm not sure of the exact definition in the past, but it pre-dates railways by several centuries. 'Battle stations' as a term dates back some considerable way, and naval vessels in their correct patrol areas were said to be 'on station' in Nelson's time. I believe it is derived from a Latin word meaning 'still' (i.e. 'stationary'). 'Railway station' as a term goes back at least as far as 1825, while 'train station' was not recorded for over a century after that, nor were 'petrol station', 'power station' or 'bus station'. One important consideration is how widespread a term is. Is it a 'railway station' in Australia, India, South Africa or any other country where the British built the railways? Finally, the term 'train' may be incorrect when referring to modern passenger railway vehicles. Under some definitions, trains are exclusively loco-hauled or push-pull. Most modern passenger vehicles are multiple units, and thus not 'trains' under these definitions, because there is no locomotive.--128.240.229.3 (talk) 02:12, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

• • From my concise OED as mentioned earlier: "train  • n. 1 a series of railway carriages or wagons moved as a unit by a locomotive or by integral motors. 2 a number of vehicles or pack animals moving in a line ...". Therefore, whether there is a locomotive or not is immaterial; the popular misconception is that "train" is a synonym for "locomotive". Note the clause "or by integral motors": multiple-units are trains, provided that there are two or more coaches. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:22, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose - as BritishWatcher said a station can also refer to a bus station for example. Train station is good and what I'd call it (as a young British person) these days. Railway station would be OK. Eraserhead1 (talk) 22:52, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not what we personally would call it that matters, but what the authoritative sources - dictionaries, railway authority publications, etc. call it. Wikipedia is meant to be based on the latter. The International Union of Railways calls it a station in their international thesaurus. Unless we take cognisance of these authorities, Wikipedia will simply become a distillation of Wikipedians' personal opinions. Of course, 'station' has lots of meanings, but the primary meaning is the subject of this article - not according to me but according to English dictionary sources. --Bermicourt (talk) 06:52, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I've just gone and read the guidelines and actually that is only 1 of the 5 criteria for a good name according to WP:Naming. It also needs to be easy to find (a commonly used name), precise (i.e. describe the article unambiguously), concise (as short as possible) and consistent with other similar articles. -- Eraserhead1 (talk) 10:25, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment. When addressing a place in Locale - station format (e.g. Oslo Station), reader usually would interpret the station refers to a railway station rather than bus station, police station, etc. However, when refering to an indefinite railway station we naturally would say, e.g. I'm in a railway / railroad / train station while I'm in a station may seem a bit odd IMO. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 09:23, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - I've just looked up the definition on my Mac's "New Oxford American dictionary" and Station means: a regular stopping place on a public transportation route, esp. one on a railroad line with a platform and often one or more which kinda supports both viewpoints :p. -- Eraserhead1 (talk) 11:25, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - It wouldn't be a problem if everyone used the same term. The issue is that, outside North America, 'train station' is common slang, which isn't a great way to title articles, when the solution of 'station' is universally used and acceptable, and backed by authoritative sources. Moreover, Wikipedia has a great disambiguation system. Let's use it. E.g. a hatnote like For other uses, see Station (disambiguation). --Bermicourt (talk) 17:38, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Interesting argument - I suppose its a bit like the George W Bush article being called Dubya - but not quite as bad as that :p. -- Eraserhead1 (talk) 20:50, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

PS I retract my oppose and am now neutral. -- Eraserhead1 (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - Station would be a bad choice as their are lots of different sorts of stations, bus station, space station etc. I have always been lead to believe that the correct term in British English is "railway station" but train station is acceptable I'd say. Cls14 (talk) 16:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - yes that's been said before, but the point is that (and dictionaries generally agree with this) when the word 'station' is used it's primary meaning, if unqualified, is 'railway station', 'railroad station'. The latter are also used in the authoritative sources, but 'train station' is not - it's modern slang. --Bermicourt (talk) 21:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Railway Station is the correct phrase in English. Train Station sounds so low brow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.253.68 (talk) 15:13, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Streets named "Station Road" in Britain are always so named because of the presence of a railway station, not a bus station, space station, etc.Manormadman (talk) 04:24, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Other Records section

Why is Châtelet-Les Halles in the "other records" section? Is it the busiest underground station in the world? If so it needs clarifying. Eraserhead1 (talk) 22:48, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

OK as that seems plausible I'm going to add it to the article with a citation needed. As the Yamanote line is above ground I can't think of any other plausible suggestion. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:42, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

largest railway station

The article writes "The world's largest station by floor area is Nagoya Station in Nagoya, Japan." with 410,000m² citing a life-style magazin [1] which in turn cites Wikipedia. But what about Beijing West Railway Station with 510,000m² according to Xinhua [2]? --Mps (talk) 16:34, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Y Done -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Oldest Railway Station

This article needs clarification on the oldest railway station. It looks like there's some text missing before the paragraph about Edge Hill station which probably mentioned that Liverpool Street station in Manchester was the first train station in the world. On the Wikipedia entry for Liverpool_Road_railway_station_(Manchester), it actually mentions that Earlestown_railway_station in Newton-le-Willows is older than Edge Hill station and still in use.

It should also be clarified whether or not this is based on commuter stations or freight stations, as at Liverpool Street station itself (now part of the Museum of Science and Industry) the information board says that it was the first railway station in the world 'designed for use by the public'. As far as I am aware, there were numerous postal/freight stations open in Manchester and Birmingham before that.

Could someone with more knowledge than me please clarify this please? As it stands, the article and other linking articles create a great deal of confusion.

Lexusperplexus (talk) 10:59, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Why "Train Station"?

I simply cannot understand who has decided that anyone searching for "Railway Station" will be directed to a page entitled "Train Station". Reading the various comments on the talk page, it seems clear to me that the overwhelming view is that "Railway Station" is the preferred term. Please, whoever has the appropriate authority, put this back in right order! 109.155.58.94 (talk) 11:09, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

This is English-language Wikipedia, not UK Wikipedia. Americans use the term "Railroad station" (which, like "Railway station", also redirects here) and don't use the term "Railway station". Likewise, people in Britain use "Railway station" and not "Railroad station". "Train station", which, these days, can be heard in both countries, is a compromise. You can't please all of the people all of the time. --GuillaumeTell 17:12, 22 July 2011 (UTC)