Talk:U2

Irish?

U2 is an Anglo-Irish band - two of the four members (The Edge and Adam Clayton) are English-born British citizens. This article perpetuates the myth that U2 is an Irish band.180.130.212.234 (talk) 03:11, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Look in the archives for the overly long discussion and consensus reached last year, also the numerous citations to members of the band stating they are in fact an Irish band.Heiro 03:31, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, the consensus is often wrong. Prenigmamann (talk) 01:01, 15 September 2011 (UTC) Prenigmamann

WP:CONSENSUS, its how we handle disputes here. Also we use WP:CITE, WP:VERIFY and no personal opinions. Heiro 01:16, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

One was born of Welsh parents not two of English. They grew up in Ireland. The band as a collective is Irish. That is why it says the band is Irish. It doesn't say that each of the members of the band was born with Irish citisenship. The article on the band is an article on the band not on each member of the band; the members of the band each have their own article. You too can make the arguement that with so many number one singles over here that U2 is a Canadian band. I mean, they played in Moncton of all small cities to go to. Only a Canadian band would play a city of 65K people. ;) O and Bono and The Edge have a little thing going on with the Toronto International Film Festival a couple of days ago called From The Sky Down. An encore screening will take place at Ryerson Uni this coming Saturday. Clearly they are Canadian. ;) delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 01:48, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Relevant archived discussion here, for anyone who wants to read it. Plenty of citations to sources describing the band as "Irish", including some from members of the band themselves. If you wish to re-argue or change the consensus, be sure to read up on it and bring better sources than the ones already provided. Heiro 01:55, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm not wishing to "re-argue" (that's a new one) or change anything. I'm simply noting that consensus opinion, despite the fact that it is employed here as a decision-making tool, is often incorrect; as the quality of the consensus opinion is largely dependent on the quality and knowledge base of the individuals expressing a view. The fact that consensus is used is the primary reason that wiki articles are not viewed as a credible or reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prenigmamann (talk • contribs) 21:12, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, we could always use the "THE TRUTH © ® ™ ", but how do you decide whose "WP:TRUTH" is the more correct version of the "WP:TRUTH". So instead we use consensus based on citations to reliable secondary and tertiary sources. We are an encyclopedia, not arbiters of "THE TRUTH". Heiro 21:55, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

No, this is not an encyclopedia. Far from it. But as pertains to U2, I am not making a case one-way or another. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prenigmamann (talk • contribs) 02:14, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

You of course are entitled to you opinion. Would you mind terribly signing with ~~~~ when you leave a message on a talk page, it signs your posts and adds a timestamp, and it is another of our policies. Heiro 02:27, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

"Policies". Sure, no problem. But maybe one day there can be a policy initiated to try to strive for accuracy in these articles. There is so much minutiae involved policies, procedures and policing that the informational content is often overlooked - or overridden. Prenigmamann (talk) 22:48, 19 September 2011 (UTC)Prenigmamann

All members of U2 are on the record as describing themselves as an Irish band. Ever heard them refer to themselves as an Anglo-Irish band? Or anyone else for that matter? --Merbabu (talk) 22:18, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

All I'm going to say is read Talk:U2/Archive 7#Irish or from Ireland?. –Dream out loud (talk) 15:39, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Already linked to above. By their own admission above, Prenigmamann is not arguing one way or another over this matter, but are merely here to discuss their feelings on the validity of Wikipedia and its policy on consensus in general. As that is not the purpose of this talkpage, this section can probably be archived now. Heiro 16:01, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I know this discussion is a little old now, but I feel able to add my input on the matter in points, I work well with points, it's what I do in real life, so -

Arguments for Irish -

• U2 originated from County Dublin/Dublin Ireland (Republic of). They were formed there.

• The Edge, along with Adam Clayton, were both born in England, UK. However, they were raised in Ireland.

• They are famous for being from Ireland, and nowhere else. This is the band as a whole.

• MOS states no ethnicity in the lead. Well seeing as the ethnicity of The Edge and Clayton are not Irish, how is that going to apply? <: ones Welsh the other is of English ancestry.

• They self-describe as Irish.

• Adding English/Welsh/British or whatever to the lead, would only put undue weight on two of the members birth places, ethnic backgrounds and citizenship.

• Anglo-Irish is just wrong. We would never use such an outdated term now. Even if it did or did not apply.

Arguments for inclusion of British/English/Welsh -

• Clayton was born in England to English parents.

• The Edge was born in England to Welsh parents.

And that's it....I think it's pretty clear there just an Irish band and any citizenship or ancestry is wholly irrelevant to who the band is, their style and their notability. --Nutthida (talk) 16:45, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Category-British post punk bands

Does anyone else feel its ok to include this band in this cat Category:British post-punk music groups, we have a POV warrior edit warring to keep it out [1]. Would it be better to move it up one cat? Heiro 20:34, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

They are not a British band, though the individual members are of various nationalities. The inclusion of that category in this article does not make much sense to me. Melicans (talk, contributions) 20:42, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Fine by me, moved up one cat to Category:Post-punk music groups, if anyone ever creates and Irish specific cat we can move it there. Heiro 20:48, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Not POV , as above where you yourself state they are not British but Irish ,to include them then in a British group catergory would go against consensus , why include a band that are not British in a British band catergory ? Not POV just logic .Murry1975 (talk) 21:01, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Contradiction.?

It says the band originates from Dublin but when you check the pages of Bono and The Edge it says their Origin is County Dublin. Eh. --Nutthida (talk) 16:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Dublin is a city within the same named county .It also has several areas and towns within these can be referenced like Glasnevin on Bono's page. There is no contradiction , but certainly a slight vagueness about it.Murry1975 (talk) 17:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

OK Thanks. There all from the Dublin greater area I suppose. Cities are ridiculously complicated things. There vague. --Nutthida (talk) 18:15, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes , I am from one area of Dublin BOTH my parents are from different areas , yet we are all from Dublin - just not quite the same one , at least I'm not a Culchie :) .Murry1975 (talk) 18:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

References to stage names

I favour that Paul and David's stage names should be referred to in the opening line of the lead, much the same way gangsters and sportspeople like "Air" Jordan have their secondary names acknowledged — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.72.215.184 (talk) 06:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

They're stage names instead of nicknames. Bono is always credited as simply Bono, ditto for The Edge. Hot Stop ^UTC 07:10, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Giving their real names in the lead is fine for the articles on the band members (take a look at them, they currently satisfy what you want). However, I don't see why it's necessary for an article on the band. Bono's and The Edge's real names are listed in the U2 article body when discussing a point in the band's history when their de facto names were not their nicknames. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 07:11, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I see no reason to change it from the status quo we have had all these years. As U2, they have only ever been credited as Bono and The Edge respectively, and this article should reflect that. Melicans (talk, contributions) 14:05, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME would say the use of Bono and The Edge is correct , the example Snoop Dogg given is the exact same as either of these. Thier birth names are given in the article and on their own article pages, which are pipelinked , I can not think of a reason to change these.Murry1975 (talk) 18:25, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

This article was changed by the above IP and by USER:Sikhvirtue here[[2]] Sikhvirtue was found to be a sock of a disruptive editor , Sikhvirtue is now blocked.Murry1975 (talk) 18:34, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Members

Former members The infobox should at least include Dik Evans as a former member of the band--he was in it for over a year. I don't know why he wouldn't be included... —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:45, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I have a general (and I admit an unpopular) objection with info boxes - they tend to elevate the trivial to the top of the article. This would be a perfect example. That Edge's older brother was a member (and at times less than serious member), is indeed rather trivial in the whole scheme of U2's history. This is the same reasoning behind cited by those who argue against the inclusion of the Dalton Brothers and Automatic Baby in the info box (indeed these points aren't even mentioned in the article, an appropriately not). So, I'm not supporting the inclusion of Dik Evans in the info box as it is excessive promotion of relatively trivia over far more important material for which there will never be space in an info box. Just because an info box as the parameter does not mean the item should be in their. Because one can, doesn't mean one should. --Merbabu (talk) 15:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

As far as I am aware Dik Evans never played with the band called U2 , only The Hype , I maybe wrong. The Hypye were a 5 peice they went to a 4 piece then changed their name as memory(OR) recalls. If a cited source could be found for a 5 piece U2 featuring Dik I would support.Murry1975 (talk) 16:06, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

You are correct - indeed, the article says as much. --Merbabu (talk) 18:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Koavf could you please stop adding the province, it is not common usage [3], [4], [5], or even here [6]. It gets used in templates? Please understand addresses in Ireland tend not to use province. I have again reverted it in good faith. Yes Merbabu I knew I remembered it from some where.Murry1975 (talk) 22:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree that listing the province adds no value. Sure, it's official, but Dublin is Dublin and there is no reason/benefit for wikipedia to chose strict usage over common usage - at least in this instance. --Merbabu (talk) 04:30, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

The Dalton Brothers and Automatic Baby are not even mentioned in the U2 article anywhere at all and that is appropriate????? Merbabu, perhaps you should go ride a wild horse or two and come back a bit more humbled. What next? Do you remove all mention of Brian Eno? Or maybe you want to go so far as to get rid of all mention of Adam because it is inappropriate because noone cares about the bass player? By your own logic it is inappropriate to mention Passengers at all. And yet Original Soundtracks 1 and Miss Sarajevo are woven into the U2 article collective and Passengers is in the infobox as an associated act. Therefore your actions are in conflict with your own stated position. Either they all are in or you push for the removal of the field from the template because they are each and all associated acts. Since when is it appropriate to intentionally orphan articles that are appropriate to exist?
Isn't Paul McGuiness the 5th member of U2 and i thought Dik was out when they were still The Hype. If there were an article on The Hype then Dik would have a place in the infobox. The infobox for oasis doesn't include every member of The Rain. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 19:57, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I must have missed the point of your comment - why should we remove mention of eno, Adam and passengers? I don't get it. Adam is a founding member (he's 25% of the band!), eno is a hugely influential figure in their career, and passengers is an important release and key to their 90s work.

as for your wild horses and humble comments, I detect possible inadvertant incivility - no doubt unintentional on your behalf though. Cheers. --Merbabu (talk) 14:18, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Current Members

Changed Edge to be 2nd to Bono, then Clayton then Mullen. This is the way the band is ordered in every recording and DVD. GG The Fly (talk) 00:01, 26 February 2012 (UTC)