Talk:Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

NPOV

Somebody really needs to fix this article. It starts pretty well, but then deteriorates towards the end. This is an example of bad Wiki. You guys with the emotional points of view need to get a life and STOP EDITING!Bill Eastland 04:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Well you are right brother, but hey as you may know that Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia and it should have the possible correct information about the required article, so that is what i am trying to do here, i have nothing to do with Shia or Sunni....it is just we should not conceal the facts about our leaders, Zulfiqar was a Shia and so it may be it here, now if one repeatedly calls him a sunni is doing a sectarian offense and literally is changing the accurate information. And same thing is happening in the Muhammed Ali Jinnah and Benazir Bhutto and also Asif Ali Zardari so please wikipedia stop this.Thanks!

Paki90 (talk) 20:16, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I think there needs to be an addition in the article about Bhutto's involvement in the 1965 war and his role in the break-up of east and west pakistan. I would also like to point out that being neutral about his party is imp. It was a socialist movement (party) which has been passing the party chair within the family only! i guess the PPP has a non democratic system of selecting or may i say accepting the party chair, after all if your a bhutto you are born to be the chair of PPP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.79.203.51 (talk) 03:56, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I am trying to add neutral sources as much as I can. I did my best. But there are some contributors who either really hates him or really loves him, making Bhutto's page a fighting forum. Second, do not use "British English", please use American English. For instance, Nationalisation's correct spelling would be Nationalization. It is very hard to find neutral books on Bhutto. His party's collaborator or haters provided sources on based on what they believe in. I had to visit my university's library. I founded a lot of stuff on Zulfi Bhutto's achievement, failure, life, and policies. The USC library can be a good neutral source. If some one is attending USC, I suggest checking out the books about Zulfi Bhutto there.

== Shia or Atheist == This is a misleading subheading.

Can anyone give an authentic proof of Z. A. Bhutto being shia; did he attend any shia gathering, or did he ever had iftar of his fast according to Shia timing (like Mr. Asif Zardari always does); or did he submit his faith to any court of law (like Quaid-e-Azam did). Therefore, it is widely believed that Z. A. Bhutto was an atheist due to his Communist associations.

This whole line of reasoning is flawed because the factual data provided by both his daughter Benazir Bhutto (Reconciliation: Islam, Democracy and the West, page 54)and his granddaughter Fatima Bhutto (Songs of Blood and Sword, page 50) makes it absolutely and incontrovertibly clear that ZA Bhutto was a Sunni. His wife, Nusrat Bhutto, however, was a Shia and Benazir married Asif Ali Zardari who is Shia.It is mischievous and downright unethical to distort this fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fayyazabbas (talk • contribs) 15:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

An aethist ? You're kidding, right? In Benazir Bhutto, Z. A.'s daughter's book, Daughter of the East, Ms. Bhutto clearly states that her father was a Sunni Muslim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.23.32 (talk) 19:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess that has always been Benazir Bhutto's double policy to protect herself of being killed as she belonged to a minority of Shia Muslims in Pakistan, who are 30% of Pakistan. She always tried to lie on her religious background just to save her and her family from anti-Shia elements, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was a Shia-muslim i know this because my grand father was his very close friend. Even Vali Nasr who is an American Historian, he clearly states that Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was a Shia weather Benazir states him being a Sunni or he himself was quite on his beliefs here is an authentic reference,Vali Nasr The Shia Revival: How Conflicts Within Islam Will Shape the Future (W. W. Norton, 2006), pp. 88-90 ISBN 0-3933-2968-2.

Guessing something is not the same as knowing for sure. ZA Bhutto actually wrote a letter in the Time or Newsweek just before the creation of Pakistan in which he argued that Pakistan will be an ideal Islamic state. In that letter he mentioned the Caliph Umar as the epitome of ideal Muslim ruler. I have yet to meet a Shia who would agree with this very Sunni way of looking upon Islamic history. I am looking for that letter and will post it. In fact Bhutto in a meeting with his party cadres in Sahiwal gave some details about his family being Sunnis of the Brelawi sect though he told the people that he also found Deobandi ideas interesting and that some of his relatives adhered to Deobandi doctrines. I was not present on that occasion but fully trust the friend who narrated this to me. Also, do read Fatima Bhutto's book where she actually gives the details of how at the time of the marriage of Nusrat (a Shia) and ZA Bhutto a Sunni the elder sister of Nusrat insisted that a Shia maulvi must preside over the Nikah. This was not easily acceptable to the Bhuttos. This argument that Benazir was afraid and therefore feigned being a Sunni is absurd. She married a Shia and that in itself is indication that she was not afraid of it. One can't marry a Shia and not feel scared if that is true. Vali Nasr is not authority on Pakistan, so there is no reason to rely on his faulty research. Ishtiaq Ahmed (Professor Emeritus of Political Science Stockholm University).

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.70.72.83 (talk) 14:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC) 

Paki90 (talk) 18:47, 30 November 2008 (UTC) Muslim Umma.By M.Watering p212 He clearly metioned that Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was Sunni Muslim and Benazir as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.22.123 (talk) 22:16, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Z.A.Bhutto being shia needs authentication . His ancestors were given this land on conversion to Islam by Sunni Emperor Aurengzeb Alamgir . His name Zulfiqar Ali hints at Shia origin , his domestic politics was strongly shia in outward appearance . His foriegn policy was intimately linked with regional powers Saudia Arabia , Sunni and Iran shia. His wife and daughter were shia offcourse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.2.177.244 (talk) 22:26, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Z.A.Bhutto and Benazir Bhutto were Sunni muslims. And Ms. Nusrat Bhutto was Shia muslim. - Said Dr. Ghulam Hussain former Secretary-General Pakistan People's Party and Federal Minister of Mr. Z.A Bhutto's Cabinet. 1977. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.139.142 (talk) 17:26, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

bhutto was not shia, his wife was but he and his daughter where not. the western author who calls him shia is not authority of pakistan , he is just writting about random fights he expects to see in islam. the reason some tradional sindi muslim get called shia is their beliefs are very similar to that of shias --Multan47 (talk) 03:46, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Death Dates

Did Bhutto die on 4 April or 5 July 1977? The article has his death date as 4 April, then has his end of term in office as 5 July. Kdevans 15:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC) Bhutto was deposed in a coup 6 July 1977, and hanged 4 April 1979. "This report on Muhammad Zia Ul-Haq’s coup d’état appeared in The Times on July 6, 1977. Since 1971 Pakistan had been led by President Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who had maintained the martial law of the previous regime. However, when faced with growing political opposition and regional violence, his government became ever more repressive, and in 1977 he was charged with election fraud, after the Pakistan National Alliance (PNA) accused him of rigging that year’s election. In order to end the political stalemate that now gripped Pakistan, a coup d’état was staged by army Chief of Staff, General Muhammad Zia Ul-Haq, who then imposed another military regime. Bhutto was first placed under house arrest; he was tried for political murder and found guilty. On April 4, 1979, Bhutto was hanged. Zia formally assumed the presidency in 1978 and established Shari’ah (Islamic law) as the law of the land. He died in 1988 in a plane crash. Original spellings, including that of Zia Ul-Haq as Zia al-Huq, have been retained." url= http://uk.encarta.msn.com/sidebar_1461501535/Muhammad_Zia_Ul-Haq's_Coup_D'%C3%89tat_The_Times_Report.html title=Muhammad Zia Ul-Haq's Coup D'État: The Times Report - Sidebar - MSN Encarta AndersW (talk) 09:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Who Conspired to murder Whom and who died

In the USA "conspiracy" to murder is a lesser or included charge. Conspiracy is usually only charged alone if the crime is broken up prior to the attempt. If the attempt succeeds, it's murder. If the attempt fails, it's attempted murder. Capital Punishment for mere conspiracy, not even an attempt, would be seen as barbaric even most supporters of capital punishment.

Even worse the link to the murder victim??? on Wikipedia turns out to be someone still alive in 2007. Looking on Time.com, a much more reliable source than WP, it looks like the murder conspiracy was actually attempted murder in that shots were fired, and while the shooters failed to hit their intended target, they did hit/murder someone else, the father of the intended victim with the same last name??? In the USA, that would be "attempted murder" of the person they were trying to shoot, and actual murder of the person they hit and killed.

I don't know about this case and am only checking because of the news. Serves me right for clicking on Wikipedia. Undog (talk) 00:56, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Shaheed / Martyr

Many of the web references I've found to Shaheed ZAB appear to be connected to the Bhutto family or PPP, or don't look authoritative. BB was chairman of SZABIST's board of trustees. Besides the Bhutto family, its supportersm, its political party, and related entities, who calls him a martyr? AndersW (talk) 09:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd put Shaheed there anyway since most Muslims, even those who don't agree with him politically, call him Shaheed, which is more Islamic than martyr. 72.255.23.32 (talk) 19:20, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

para with problems

the following para: In his book If I am Assassinated, written from his prison cell, Bhutto revealed how Henry Kissinger had said to him in 1976: "we can destabilize your government and make a horrible example out of you". Kissinger had warned Bhutto that if Pakistan continued with its nuclear programe the Prime Minister would have to pay a heavy price. states one book as source of quote then says ref to another. Last sentence has no reference.Atmamatma (talk) 07:47, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

resolving Death Dates issue

The death of "Zulfikar Ali Bhutto" was on 4th April 1979, so i dont understand why people contradict it with the date of coup of General Zia ul-haq, which was on 5th July 1977 (meaning his [bhutto] government has been toppled) .. so why people are mixing both dates.....

The guy called UNDOG

Who is asking from you about your opinnion, what USA does or doesnt do, either with the criminals or on conspiracy charges... What I know is, basically this chat is baseless because Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was a pakistani. So, the court which can give punishment on his murder or conspiracy, is either the pakistani courts or if this case goes in UN general assembly or United Nations Security Council then they will decide... so the point is USA's laws doesn't have anything do with it.

Yeah Muslims will call him shaheed/Martyr

The reason for it is because, anyone who believes on Allah as his God and Muhammed P.B.U.H as his true messenger, if died unnaturally and also severed his nation (subject to ones see and many people things he broke our country) but what he did for the country after 1971, creation of Nuclear Bomb, making of Organisation of Islamic countries and relationship with India, things like that makes him true person for his country, The country which he served with passion, thats why he may will ever be lived in the hearts of many pakistani muslims as a martyr.

Rewrite needed

I am not competent to judge the factual issues discussed here with such passion, but as a professional writer in English I am competent to declare the section "Father of Nuclear program" a linguistic train wreck. Immediately we see "Nuclear" capitalized but "program" in lower case, and spelled the American way. In the body of the section the spelling changes to British "programme." But that is just a hint of what is to come. By the last two paragraphs we have descended into chaos, with "somewhat" made into two words, "kissinger" not capitalized, spaces before commas due to simple mistyping, the verb "advise" mistaken for the noun "advice," missing words, and just plain gibberish ("he sought on a along journey"). It's ridiculous copy like this that casts doubt on the whole premise of the Wikipedia. I know someone is going to comment snarkily that while I was writing this screed I could have simply corrected the errors; but no, I couldn't, because things like "he sought on a along journey" are not clear enough in meaning to correct, and are more important than capitalizing "kissinger." I would rather someone who knows the facts and is actually competent in English rewrite the whole thing, than for me to do it piecemeal, fixing some things and leaving others in tatters. There are occasional oddities in the rest of the article as well, but this section is by far the worst. Billcito (talk) 04:04, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Allegiance to which Muslim sects

Benazir bhutto was not shiite by faith and her father z.a bhutto too was not shiite but a hanfi sunni (brailvi) even z.a bhutto’s 2nd wife was a Iranian Shiite but he was a sunni. z.a Bhutto,shanawaz, murtaza and benazir namaz jinaza was done by a sunni brailvi mullah name mufti ibrahim iskandri and his late father who was a sunni mullah too. If bhuttos were Shiite then sunni mullah would never have done(funaral prayer) namaz jinaza of them. If one visit the graveyard of Bhutto family can see the names of 4 companions abu bakar,umar,usman and ali are written on the graves which is not the Shiite tradition. During the z.a bhutto’s government a sunni hanafi(brailvi) Maulana Kausar Niazi (1934-1994) was a most powerful federal minister in Pakistan during the Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s government was made minister of religious affairs not any Shiite. If any one have any doubt about Bhutto family being a Shiite, must contact the Pakistan government officially where all the information’s about this issue can be find. Zia ul haq was not a sunni he was a big wahabi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bilal alrai (talk • contribs) 21:50, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Religion

Are you seriously meaning that his grand child doesn't know what his religion was? Muslim-Sunni

Changes in Nuclear Programme Section

I have made changes in Bhutto's Father of Nuclear Programme Section. Bhutto's close aide Kausar Niazi's book cannot be trusted as reliable source because it is leaning towards A.Q. Khan's achievements. Niazi repeatedly disrespected PAEC and Munir Ahmad Khan, by labeling him as Electrical engineer who doesn't understand the nuclear matters. In fact, Khan was Nuclear engineer and known Bhutto since 1965. Munir Ahmad Khan headed the programme with extreme administrative authority, and developed the programme under extreme secrecy. Other sources such as Atlantic Monthly and Time Magazines provided neutral sources and facts rather than Kausar Niazi's book. In Niazi's book, A.Q. Khan is portraited as Nuclear physicist/engineer and designer of the nuclear weapon. He completely ignored the fact that he was metallurgical engineer charged with one task. Niazi also failed to mention Khan's illicit nuclear trafficking network, and his alleged role in the development.

So, I humbly request not to revert any changes. The neutral sources are referenced it together. And, Salam's section also added as he was Bhutto's Science Advisor. In context we agree with Niazi's book, that if Bhutto had decided to go with AQ Khan's pursuit, than there would be no need for PAEC and Abdus Salam and Munir Ahmad Khan's role in the development of the weapons. Simply, just ignore the facts, and delete their pages from Wikipedia Biography.

In commentary, Niazi's account is more like portraying AQ Khan as National hero and ignoring the fact that the such programme is developed by the determination of hundreds of scientists and engineers (PAEC), not by one person (AQ Khan). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.0.105.21 (talk) 03:44, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Caste & Oringinal Place of family

I found that Butto was Rajput in his wikipedia and Rajput wikipedia is also withness on it that it is clane of Ruputs but same time Butto family is written as Arian family in wikipedia of his father. which is the correct? Moreover this was not Sindi family. They migrated from Punjab. Please rectify with the correct inforamtion. Thanks. Mohammad Awais Rana

Inconsistency in article

Regarding the nuke program, the article says:

After India's nuclear test — codename Pokhran-I — in May 1974, Bhutto sensed a great danger for Pakistan.

This sentence is out of place, inconsistent and gives a false impression.

Out of place and inconsistent, because everything else in the section makes clear that Bhutto had decided back in 1972 that a bomb was needed and was doing everything in his power to get the nuke. The above line, placed at the beginning of the paragraph and otherwise as well, gives the false impression that India exploding the bomb was his main motivation. I would recommend that this line be modified to say: "Bhutto plans of gaining a nuclear device gained new impetus after the 1974 nuke test by India". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taimura (talk • contribs) 05:10, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

incorrect, the drive to nuclear device was after the indain tests --Multanguy47 (talk) 14:26, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit discussion

Bhutto was leader of pakistan, just as Obama is not leader of the Free world, that is not an opinion its a fact. Bhutto was PM for 7 years ? bhutto was also not a communist he had socialist polies.and on what basis do you think his economic policies failed ? because he was NOT as succesful as the early 1960s ? but his growth was more balances and people preffered it --Multan47 (talk) 02:55, 21 October 2011 (UTC) also zia did not privatise everything, so that is irrelvant if u insist on mentioning zia privatise policy at least say he only did it to get political support of the industrialist elite and only gave it back to pro zia families After the fall of the Bhutto government Zia returned assets back to families in return for political support

personally I dont think what zia and musheraff did is relevant--Multan47 (talk) 03:46, 21 October 2011 (UTC)--Multan47 (talk) 03:46, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Bhutto Leader

?--Multan47 (talk) 00:57, 10 November 2011 (UTC) yes I think so ? If no disagree then the Leader REference will be final and no more changing

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