Talk:Ä

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commented text to be reincorporated?[edit]

I found this commented within the article:

Is it Ä, A-umlaut, or A-diaeresis for these languages? -- "Other alphabets are Azerbaijani, Welsh, Frisian, Luxembourgish, Livonian, Dutch, Inari Sámi, Lule Sámi, Skolt Sámi, Slovak, Turkmen, Yapese and Dink alphabet."

Dutch only has the letter in loanwords from German or Scandinavian, afaik, such as "knäckebröd", not in native words.

Maybe useful? Tuvalkin (talk) 02:29, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

"Ä"a variant of "A"?[edit]

I doubt that in German "Ä" is considered merely a variant of "A". It's true that German speakers would recognize it as the "A" umlaut but there are probably uses where it does not function as an umlaut. It's also true that "AE" is sometimes used as a substitute for "Ä". However, the letter "Ä" is clearly recognized as separate from "A" or "AE". An arbitrary example: it would not be considered correct to spell the name "Gaethgens" as "Gäthgens", and in bureaucratical use "Hans Gaethgens" and "Hans Gäthgens" would certainly be two different persons until proven to be one and the same. The same is true for "Ö - OE" and "Ü - UE". Kosebamse 20:26 Mar 11, 2003 (UTC)

I agree! Johan Magnus Thirded! Maléfix (talk) 14:24, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Hidden the description of how to pronounce the sound[edit]

I've hidden the description of how to pronounce the sound. My reason for doing so is most of all that the character is used in several languages, and I believe it's wrong to assume that the pronounciation is similar in all non-English languages (also when it is similar in some). I'm also convinced that an article designated for vowel-sounds would be a better place. A link to such an article would surely be the best. :-)

I do also feel awkward about the notes on being an umlaut and on alphabetization, which I actually feel would fit much better in the articles on the different alphabets. Johan Magnus

Pronunciation info does belong in the article, as it's likely to be useful to the reader. Go ahead and write the article about vowels around the world; I think that's a great idea. Oh, and BTW we don't comment out parts of articles around here—to remove part of an article without deleting it altogether, move it to the article's talk page instead. Mkweise 09:16 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Removed remark about IPA[edit]

I've removed the following:

In the International Phonetic Alphabet, "ä" is used to represent the sound of the "a" in "father".

``ä is not the usual vowel symbol used for a-in-father, which I've always seen described as a back vowel rather than a centralised front vowel.

Prumpf 14:53, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I checked the IPA chart, and you're right: the phonetic alphabet used in English dictionaries differs quite substantially from IPA. I wonder whether the "dictionary phonetic alphabet" has an official name; I couldn't find one in any of my dictionaries. Mkweise 17:50, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I have not encountered two American dictionaries by different companies with the same system of phonetic alphabet. Most of them are not one-symbol-one-sound. Which one are you using? --Menchi 17:56, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Personally, I think that the american systems are basically only of use to people that have grown up with american english as a first language. As an ESL speaker, I think IPA is more neutral, logical and easier to interpret.

Swedish pronounciation[edit]

In Swedish the letter is pronounced [æ] when directly preceding an r, elsewhere as [ɛ] (regional variations exist).

The last part is not true, for instance for räka, äta, portmonä, etc. Most of the time it is pronounced [æ]. (unsigned)

That's a regional variation from Norrland that has spread to young people in central Sweden (Svealand) during the last decades. It's has never been considered standard pronounciation or rikssvenska (just listen to old tapes, tv-shows or films); ä is always [ɛ], except before the letter r. 83.255.39.179 (talk) 16:52, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

If the IPA for English page is correct, the IPA symbol [æ] is entirely incorrect for Swedish ä, and [?] is highly questionable.

Can't know how you've been reading it, just google "Swedish vowels". --Vuo 17:16, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
I think [æ] is correct, only that it's always a long vowel in Swedish, and always short in English, (Swedish short ä gets another vowel quality.)

Swedish Ä is pronounced as [ε]. The pronounciation [æ] occurs only if an R is following. Please change that. Tack så mycket!

It depends on if the vowel is short or long. In most major dialects, short ä is [ε], long ä is [æː], if I'm not completely mistaken. 惑乱 分からん 22:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
You are mistaken. In most dialects long ä is [æː] when followed by an r but [εː] elsewhere, and the short ä is similarily pronounced [æ] before r and [ε] elsewhere. Today most people also pronounce the short e like the short ä instead of [e]. 85.8.0.197 11:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Not entirely true. The Swedish letter ä has multiple possible sounds, quite sure regardless of dialect:
  • Ergonomisk / ärrad - the initial letter is pronounced [ε] not [æː] nor [e].
  • Lätta - pronounced with a short [e].
  • Ärevarv - initial letter is the sound [æː]. So are the words räka, chef, räv unless in some dialects it's a long [eː] (reeka, cheef, reev). --Shandristhe azylean 17:40, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Phrasing[edit]

I have some trouble with this sentence, "In the Icelandic, Danish and Norwegian alphabets, A-umlaut is often replaced with its equivalent "Æ"." Since the character generally corresponds to the Swedish "Letter Ä" rather than "A with Umlaut", wouldn't this information rather belong in the "Letter Ä" section?'

I definitely agree! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.232.72.148 (talkcontribs)
Yes it would. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 22:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

A-dieresis[edit]

I deleted the following paragraph, which seemed incorrect:

A with diaeresis occurs in several languages which use diaereses. In these languages the letter represents a normal A, and the pronunciation does not change.

I can think of no language that uses the symbol Ä, and calls the dicritic a "dieresis". FilipeS 11:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

How to type ä in Microsoft programs[edit]

I'd like to add a subsection of "On computers", similar to the one in the Å article --

To type "ä" with an US-International keyboard layout in Microsoft Windows, hold the Alt key and type ____ on the numeric keypad, and for "Ä" hold the Alt key and type 0196 on the numeric keypad.

My problem is that I can find the alt code for the little ä. Does anyone know it? DBlomgren 03:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The code for ä is ALT + 0228. Telempe 09:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Telempe. It's also 142, which is a little bit shorter. DBlomgren (talk) 19:21, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Finnish?[edit]

This article, as well as Distillation, Victor and Victor Talking Machine Company, have the section edit links as well as the Contents at the top in a non-English language, probably Finnish. I have no idea why or how to fix it. 68.161.25.228 (talk) 03:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Removing and replacing the language links seems to have fixed it somehow.68.161.25.228 (talk) 13:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)