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Silly discussions about countries
It's silly that there is so much discussion about the country where the dog comes from. It apparently comes from the central balkans, and can be found in albania, serbia, kosovo and macedonia. Don' you think you should clean up the article instead of fighting again over a very sad past?! drop it! you certainly do not want it to repeat itself!
your dog is much more beautiful than you all, and belongs to the nature. not to a country. just like you do.
Šarplaninac and Deltari Ilir are two separate breeds?
By reading this source it seems that Šarplaninac and Deltari Ilir are two related but separate breeds. The source says that the Deltari Ilir is
"established through matings between Albanian Cattledogs and Albanian Sheepdogs with the existing Sarplaninec population, but maintained as a separate breed for many decades from all other local types by the ethnic Albanian residents of Kosovo"
The source later says
"These large, strong reddish-brown dogs with white chests, legs and muzzles could still be encountered in Kosovo until the mid-1990's, but there aren't many left today, due to the assimilation in the new creation commonly referred to as the Deltari Ilir, better known as the Albanian Sharplaninatz."
The article actually explains very well the entire situation regarding the dispute, the breeds, and what Albanian side pretends, quite well. So, if any other editors don't oppose, I beleave that the content related to the Deltari Ilir should be generally removed from this article leaving just the sourced content which relates the Deltari Ilir with Šarplaninac, and perhaps a separate Deltari Ilir article should be created. FkpCascais (talk) 05:06, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
- That is very interesting article, but nothing new. Modern Sharplaninac originated from that area (Sharr Mountains), but it is result of almost 100 years of selective breeding. (Yugoslavian Federation of Cynology was established in 1920s and Sharplaninac was one of first projects.) Until 1968, Karst Shepherd and Sharplaninac were considered the same breed (2 types), and they were mixed. Some other breeds are used in order to improve the breed. (One of them was Newfoundland.) In Yugoslavia,the Yugoslav People’s Army played a key role in the breeding of Sharplaninec dogs. They had money, facilities and highly trained professionals. In their center in Nis they bred more puppies than all breeders and shepherds in Yugoslavia together.
- Modern Sharplaninac is simply different dog. For example, desired iron grey color that is dominant today came from Krast Shepherd. It was extremely rare in Western Macedonia. Shepherds preferred light colored guard dogs (dirty white, fawn) so they will not shoot them or hit by stick during a fight with wolfs. They preferred a little bit shorter hair (so snow will not stuck). Most of iron grey dogs that you can find in Sharr Mountains region today are offsprings of Yugoslav military dogs that were given to local shepherds.
- However, I don't agree that original Sharplaninac was some unique Albanian breed. The dog was extremely popular among Macedonian people (Miyaks, Torbesh) living in that area. For example, according to old Turkish tax collection records, there were 12,000 sheep and 700 Sharplaninac dogs in 1901 in Galichnik, one of Miyaks villiges in the region. There are also records created by representatives of Yugoslavian Federation of Cynology and Yugoslav army who visited the region and evaluated the dogs. I aknowledge it is possible that over time a distinctive variety of Sharplaninac has beed developed among Albanian shepherds. It would be great if Albanian cynologists preserve and standardize that breed. The problem is that as far I know, there is no official kennel club (cynology association) in Albania. (Please accept my appologies if i'm misinformed, and provide information. I would like to know more about the cynology in Albania!)
- Bottom line: I support creation of a separate Deltari Ilir article that would provide more informaton about the distinctive variety or breed that can be founded among Albanians. That may be a chance to promote and preserve unique characteristics of that breed/variety. --N Jordan (talk) 06:30, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Is this about the FCI recognized breed?
This should be an article about the officially recognized modern dog breed called “Jugoslovenski ovčarski pas Šarplaninac” (English translation of the name: Yugoslavian Shepherd Dog Sharplanina). That breed is developed from the dogs from the region of Šar Mountains. But this is a modern breed that developed over the period of 80 years. It has a breed standard, a list of attributes that standardises the appearance of the breed, written by the former Yugoslavian Federation of Cynology, and internationally recognized and protected by the FCI. Only purebred dogs (registered with the kennel club) are members of this breed. The breed registry does not accept any outside blood.
A modern Šarplaninac is slightly different from mountain dogs you can find at the region of Šar Mountains. It is much bigger, shorter, with longer, iron-grey hair. Check for example http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/sharplaninac/dog.html?id=2143126-lej-jr-sp-70978-so. Note the uniform - Šarplaninac was used as a guard dog in former Yugoslav army. It was popular in all areas of former Yugoslavia. In fact, some famous dog-show champions were from Croatia.
So, if we talk about Šarplaninac in Albania - please document that with registry certificates from the kennel clubs recognized by the FCI. Illyrian Shepherd Dog was not just an alternative name for Šarplaninac, but a common name for 2 different breeds, Šarplaninac and Kraški ovčar. I believe there are similar dogs in Albania, they may be called Deltari Ilir (llyrian Dog) - but there are not members of this modern dog breed. A new article about llyrian Dog can be created. --N Jordan (talk) 06:10, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
- Some pictures of military dogs in Yugoslavia: http://s991.photobucket.com/user/medusa983/media/Picture002.jpg.html (Serbia & Montenegro), http://s377.photobucket.com/user/sosara/media/serbianarmyshars.jpg.html (Kingdom Yugoslavia), http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6403/slika68vert.jpg, http://s377.photobucket.com/user/sosara/media/IMG_0183-1.jpg.html, http://www.belbugar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/šarko-jna.jpg. They had very intensive breeding program and influence on development of breed standard. Until 1968, it was allowed to use type B dogs (Kraški ovčar), and some of them were used to improve type A.--N Jordan (talk) 06:56, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
The official name of the breed in English is Yugoslavian Shepherd Dog - Sharplanina. It is too long and I don't mind listing that under alternative names, as long we indicate that is actually the official name of the breed. I added old name (Illyrian Shepherd Dog) - but Sharplaninac was just one of two types of that breed. Not sure what to do with "Illyrian Sheepdog" - that was simply an error in Pugnetti's book. Sharplaninac is a purebred dog and the picture inside the infobox should reflect this. Im not sure if https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Šarplaninac#mediaviewer/File:Sardog.jpg is a registered purebred dog - but for sure it is not a typical representative of the modern breed. New picture is a purebred dog. --N Jordan (talk) 08:58, 15 February 2015 (UTC)