Talk:2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami

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  • David M. Green (January 16, 2005). "Tsunami info: A world of links.". Chicago Sun-Times.  ()

Consistency in comparisons with other earthquakes[edit]

The third paragraph starts with, "With a magnitude of Mw 9.1–9.3, it is the third largest earthquake ever recorded on a seismograph," placing this event behind Alaska, 1964 and Chile, 1960 in terms of size. But the 5th paragraph under Earthquake characteristics says, "The Sumatra-Andaman earthquake was the largest earthquake since 1964, and the second largest since the Kamchatka earthquake of October 16, 1737." If it's the third largest recorded on a seismograph, it cannot be the second largest since 1737. Also, the 1737 Kamchatka event is listed as a magnitude 8.3, which is smaller than the top 15 listed by the USGS since 1900. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kylaramm (talkcontribs) 01:29, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Done. Yep, the problem seemed to be isolated to the second half the single sentence you quoted from the 'Earthquake characteristics'. As you have pointed out, this statemate appears to be incorrect in more ways than one, so I just went ahead and deleted it and combined the two paragraphs. Good catch.--Racerx11 (talk) 01:59, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Did over three hundred thousand really die?[edit]

I dispute this especially as the first number of dead came from an American source. If someone could give me peace of mind somehow over the death toll, then please do so. -- 60.234.214.63 (talk) 02:50, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I've reduced the maximum to 280,000 as that appears to be the largest number quoted by the sources given in this article. I've had a look around for other figures, but the ones that we have seem to me to be representative. If someone knows where the 310,000 figure came from, it would be good to discuss that. Mikenorton (talk) 07:11, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Spammer alert[edit]

Sorry, but I don't know the best way to handle this kind of problem. As of 2012-4-29, this article is being cited by at least one spammer as 'evidence' to add credibility to a 419 scam. I don't know if that is related to the current semi-protected status of the article, though it is obvious that spammers could give additional credibility to their scams by also tailoring and vandalizing the articles to provide convenient details related to their scams. There should be some way to add a scammer warning to articles, but I don't know what it is. What I do know is that scammers will damage Wikipedia's reputation if they can make money by doing it, and what I believe is that the best response would be to quickly add, at least temporarily, an anti-spammer warning to such articles. Rather than gaining support for their scams, the spammers should receive ANTI-support and perhaps the potential victims should even receive a specific warning. Shanen (talk) 02:43, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

No. That's just not appropriate for a Wikipedia article. --jpgordon::==( o ) 15:41, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
You mean it isn't appropriate for spammers to use Wikipedia, or it isn't appropriate to warn potential victims of the spammers who trust Wikipedia? Or it isn't appropriate to watch if the spammer is vandalizing Wikipedia to make his scam sound more plausible? Or you think it's not appropriate to worry about people being conned into supporting non-existent charities for victims of such disasters?
Whatever you mean, a spammer, probably the same one, is again citing this article as "credible evidence" of why suckers should send him money. I'm going to add the warning again. However, I think that Wikipedia should have a simple mechanism to quickly add such a warning, providing a link to the page that warns against such scams. Shanen (talk) 11:33, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
The warning such as the one you placed is indeed inappropriate. Can you clarify the specific issues at hand? What exactly is the scammer "citing"? The proper course of action would be to remove the spam and block the spammers. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:04, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
If you continue to vandalize the article by placing this warning, you will be prevented from doing it further. No one cares if something in Wikipedia is being used for nefarious purposes; this isn't the first time, it won't be the last. And if you truly cared, you would bring it to people who can actually do things (like the Wikimedia legal department, or the wider community) rather than putting up horrible garish warnings that will accomplish less than nothing (Hey, want to make Wikipedia look like it's run by spammers? How about having an ugly, poorly worded and formatted message! That'll raise our credibility!) --Golbez (talk) 13:53, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Wow, that was a surprisingly rude reply. Maybe it didn't read that rudely to you when you were writing it, but as a casual reader several months later, it sure looks rude to me. The funny thing is, I got here by a Wiki-wander that somehow traipsed through WP:Barn -- specifically, the Defender of the Wiki Barnstar, which was so deliciously ironic that I couldn't resist adding this message even though I've never been tempted to say anything on Wikipedia before. --69.131.224.228 (talk) 00:16, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Why red?[edit]

Why is the {Earthquakes in 2004} red, but still has wikilinks shown (Morocco (6.4, Feb 24) Chūetsu (6.8, Oct 23) Cayman Islands (6.8, Dec 14) Sumatra–Andaman‡ (9.3, Dec 26))? 99.181.134.146 (talk) 23:30, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Template:Earthquakes in 2004 is part of a series of templates, some of which are associated with an article (for example, Earthquakes in 2012). Some, like this one, are not. I delinked it so it appears as black. RockMagnetist (talk) 00:24, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Representation in Film/TV[edit]

Is it worth having a section on how this particular tsunami is represented in film and TV? The article currently links to two works: Children of Tsunami: No More Tears, a documentary short film, and Tsunami: The Aftermath, a TV movie (apparently also shown as a miniseries). Then there's the upcoming feature film The Impossible (or at least its trailer). And there are likely a number of TV episodes such as the season 42 Horizon episode "Tsunami, Naming the Dead". Are there more? That's actually what I'm here to find out. 24.57.210.141 (talk) 04:19, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Correct typo error in reference 71 Soutn -> South. 217.39.5.245 (talk) 21:14, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Done. Thanks! --Golbez (talk) 21:19, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

"Sixth deadliest natural disaster"[edit]

Under "casualties" in the infobox:

230,210 – 280,000 deaths[2][3] (the sixth deadliest natural disaster in recorded history)

The link is to List_of_natural_disasters#Ten_deadliest_natural_disasters which doesn't list this event in the ten deadliest natural disasters, but it is listed as the fourth deadliest natural disaster since 1900. --holizz (talk) 04:21, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

"Possible human component in magnitude of damage"[edit]

Does this section have any basis in fact? It cites only an article by a journalist 'Andrew Browne' (qualification: zero) that looks to be 100% opinion and speculation. This sort of entry undermines the factual reporting of a terrible disaster, presumably to either: 1. promote this journalist, or 2. permit weak research from a lazy contributor. I think this section should be rewritten based on cited facts, not gossip-hype, or preferably removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.8.66 (talk) 03:12, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

- I agree. This section has no notability and should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.232.230.223 (talk) 15:21, 7 August 2013 (UTC) yeah....what they said — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.182.111.132 (talk) 21:05, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Relief work section?[edit]

Hi! I just found a reference which stated that the Times Foundation with other NGO jointly provided houses for the affected people. How about adding a section stating such relief activities? This link - http://www.ncrc.in/Mediawatch/NCRC/Aug16-31_Mediawatch.pdf - also mentions some government initiatives. Thx, Traintogain (talk) 03:08, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory[edit]

Here are my issues with Soffredo's content:

  • The only sources provided that it is a "popular theory in the Muslim world" do no justification whatsoever of their stance. It's impossible to justify, because they aren't news articles. They are single paragraphs accompanying slideshows of "lol look at these wacky theories!" Your attempt to flood with sources that are nothing more than slide shows is disingenuous. There is such a thing as oversourcing, especially when they're virtually identical to each other.
  • You make the assertion that the test existed. I tried to change it to "supposed test", you changed it back to "the test". In a vacuum, out of context, that makes it sound like you're saying the test existed. There was no reason to undo my addition of "supposed". Perhaps a better word? Theorized?
  • We can source that this theory exists. We have no adequate sourcing for its popularity.

Here are my issues with Soffredo's conduct:

  • On Wikipedia, we generally operate on the principle of Bold, Revert, Discuss. Someone makes a bold addition to an article. It may then be reverted by someone who disagrees with it. We then discuss it on the talk page. To continue to put it back because you disagree with the reversion is plain and simple edit warring.
  • I asked you to come to the talk page twice. You have decided that's not for you and continued your edit war.
  • Neither of us have not formally broken 3RR, but we are clearly edit warring, and if it continues, I will report us both.

I await a response. --Golbez (talk) 21:02, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the short section that covered the conspiracy theory on the basis that it's a fringe view. The sourcing was poor - if the mainstream media considered this even a remote possibility there would be much better sources around. Mikenorton (talk) 21:11, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
If you want, you can remove the sentence stating that it's popular in the Muslim world. Just say it's a conspiracy theory. I found there to be no need to bring this to the talk page. Also, every time you gave me a reason for you undoing my edits, I fixed it. The revision history seems to have removed all the notes that went along with the edits, so I can't show you proof. But I remember adding more sources and finding the newspaper that originally reported the theory. I recall stating that you could delete any unnecessary sources, correct? I don't see why you kept removing the information, as it had far too many sources. I have to say, I'm sorry I changed "supposed test" to "the test", as I didn't notice you made that change. [Soffredo] 21:39, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't keep posting this "crap" because I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist, I'm putting it because it's interesting information about this event. Revision history working again:
  • "it's not that the telegraph is not a reputable source, but we need more than a single caption on an image to call it 'popular'." → I added another source
  • "adding world net daily ridiculing an unlinked al jazeera report (that i can find no existence of online) is not exactly helping" → You didn't read the article correctly, it stated that an Egyptian newspaper reported this. I then found a source that gave the newspaper's name.
  • "ok, you have sourced the theory. you have not sourced its popularity" → You didn't read The Telegraph slideshow
  • "you're spamming slideshows (which are never presented as news) to justify crap." → I proposed that you remove all sources you deemed unnecessary, and said that there was no need to remove all the information.
In order:
  • "If you want, you can remove the sentence stating that it's popular in the Muslim world." I TRIED. You reverted it.
  • "I found there to be no need to bring this to the talk page" You were incorrect; you edit warring to place it in the article was an obvious need to discuss rather than fight.
  • "The revision history seems to have removed all the notes..." Er, no? I see lots of notes in your edit summaries, that's how I knew you were seeing my request to come to the talk page.
  • "I remember adding sources..." Yes, you did, but you realize that at one point you had four or five sources that were nothing but an unjustified paragraph to go along with an image in a slideshow about conspiracy theories? What made you think that, if one was insufficient, that more of the same would work?
  • "I added another source" Yes you did, but not one that justified the 'popular in the muslim world' stance. None of your sources justified that statement.
  • "You didn't read the article correctly" True. I got as far as "reports Al-Jazeera, the popular Arab news service." Apparently, AJ was only reporting on the idea of weapons in general causing it, not nuclear ones, and yes, that was sourced to Al-Osboa. That's nice. So, one Egyptian magazine came up with this theory. That does not make it popular in any world, let alone Muslim. Also, one magazine having a theory that many other people report on (with general ridicule) does not mean it gets into Wikipedia.
  • "You didn't read the Telegraph slideshow" Yes, I did. It was an image caption that said it was a popular theory. Not According to which studies and scholarship, it didn't say. A newspaper saying something and not justifying it is not proper sourcing.
  • "I proposed that you remove all sources you deemed unnecessary" You will note that I did exactly that. I excised all of the slideshows and left us with actual reporting. --Golbez (talk) 22:30, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
"The revision history seems to have removed all the notes..." → "Revision history working again"
Do you want to propose a compromise/agreement or are we just going to continue trying to prove who here is right? [Soffredo] 23:02, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I offered a compromise several times (keeping most of the info, just removing the bit about 'popular in the muslim world') and you rejected it without thinking this worthy enough to explain on the talk page. And now that we have other people involved who would rather it not be there at all, and I'm certainly not going to keep them from their good deeds. You had your chance to accept my compromise, and now, I'm not the one you have to compromise with, Mikenorton is. You're new to Wikipedia, you need to understand that when people disagree with you, you go to the talk page, you don't simply keep putting the edit back or trying to put lipstick on a pig. If you had done that from the start, this would have been far less of an issue. --Golbez (talk) 23:14, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
You were undoing my whole edits. Not just removing the "popular in the muslim world" part. [Soffredo] 23:36, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I removed the entire edit when it wasn't properly sourced (i.e. relying on the slideshow). Once you got actual reporting in there, I trimmed it only of the inadequately sourced portion. As I said, "ok, you have sourced the theory, not the popularity" --Golbez (talk) 01:18, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Soffredo, no one has reached a consensus yet and you again reverted his edits. We need to reach an agreement regarding whether to include this conspiracy theory. Please refrain from the reverting and continue with the discussion here, no one likes to get involved with the wp:Administrator's noticeboard and I'm afraid you might break the 3RR rule soon. It will be to everyone's relief if this matter ends here and not anywhere else. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 09:59, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Not to mention that Soffredo just added multiple unsourced bits of information. Also, WP:FRINGE - Just because a theory exists doesn't mean it warrants mention here. Soffredo, here's the ultimatum. I'm going to remove what you just added. If you put it, or anything resembling it, back again without gaining a consensus on this talk page, I will take this to the wider community and I'm pretty confident they will smack you down until you figure out how Wikipedia works and how to play well with others. This is your final warning. I am a very, very lazy person, and I hate having to write up edit war reports, but that's where we're heading. --Golbez (talk) 13:19, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
The added material wasn't unsourced, and I don't see why the information doesn't belong to be on the article? I originally oversourced the section to show it how popular the nuclear/tsunami bomb theory was. [Soffredo] 20:31, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
You found a half dozen slideshows on the Internet saying that this theory exists. That does not mean it's a popular, notable, or important theory. (Think about it: If it was any of those things, then why did none of these reputable news outlets deign to put it in an actual article?) It does mean, however, that it's a heavily ridiculed and "hey guys look at this list of wacky conspiracy theories" theory. And, from what I can tell, all reporting on this theory originates from a single Egyptian magazine article from 2005. Why should one article written by irrational crackpots eight years ago be given any credence whatsoever? --Golbez (talk) 20:53, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
"I don't keep posting this "crap" because I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist, I'm putting it because it's interesting information about this event" I'm not giving it credence. And it's not just "one article" if many others have made references to it's theory. It seems that you're talking about the Indian-American-Israeli nuclear test theory. What about the tsunami bomb theory? What do you think about those sources? [Soffredo] 21:09, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
I disagree that it's interesting information about the event. It's an amusing anecdote but there's no reason to mention that here. To mention it here gives it more credence than it deserves. And yes, it is one article. Every outlet that sourced its source for this linked it eventually back to that one article in al Osboa. Every one that you've supplied that is. The ones that didn't source it there didn't source it at all, which means their statements are mostly useless. And what about the tsunami bomb? I don't understand what you're saying, since its intersection with this subject is precisely the nuclear test theory. Unless you're saying there's a second bomb theory that isn't the fantastical (let's stop calling it a theory) Indian test? --Golbez (talk) 21:48, 1 August 2013 (UTC)\
There are two nuclear theories: the Indian-Israeli-American test, and the nuclear tsunami bomb test. Yes, they're sometimes intersecting, yet sometimes separate. If a theory were to be implemented into the article, which one would it be based upon how reasonable it is and sources? [Soffredo] 14:01, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I see - you sourced that with a slideshow saying that some people (who?) claim it was caused by a tsunami bomb (by whom?). Neither theory is sufficiently sourced for popularity or important, and the tsunami bomb one is extremely unsourced for that, unless you have better sources available. Also, your edits to tsunami bomb indicate they're the same thing, since that's also sourced to one article in al Osboa. So, while you say the supposed Indian test and the tsunami bomb are different things, your sources actually disagree, they're both eventually sourced back to al Osboa, and I don't know why we're letting al Osboa's random fantasies dictate what gets in Wikipedia. You realize what gets in these slideshows is wacky theories, not good ones, right? You'll see "holograms did 9/11!" long before you see something serious like "a cruise missile hit the Pentagon". If they had made up a theory that the tsunami was caused by fish farting in unison, it could well end up on one of these slideshows because, well, how could it not? So we can't rely on al Osboa's ramblings to dictate what gets in Wikipedia, they have to have a life outside of the Internet ridicule machine. Basically, we would need at the very least an article, with journalism and sourcing and everything, showing how this is a theory that anyone actually cares about. The existence of the theory is not enough to get it in; the presence of it on many slideshows is not enough; what is enough is to show that a lot of people actually believe it. ... I'm gonna be bold and say we're going to need a source independent of al Osboa to indicate that. --Golbez (talk) 14:42, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
And hell, I'll be honest here - I could well be too harsh on the whole process. Maybe the existence of ridicule of the theory is sufficient for a mention, or a link back to tsunami bomb. This basically all comes back to I'm still annoyed at you because you haven't once taken ownership of your incivil and disruptive activity. So maybe we should bring in other eyes, because I'm biased. --Golbez (talk) 14:51, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Disruptive activity? You undid my whole edits, one time because you didn't read the article I sourced. I'd rather not argue who here was wrong, because we're always going to believe ourselves. As for the conclusion to the conspiracy theories being involved, I now agree that they shouldn't be included despite the interesting information being shared around the internet. Please do not continue this conversation if it's going to be about my "incivil and disruptive activity". [Soffredo] 19:00, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Resolved - The nuclear conspiracy theory made by al Osboa isn't notable enough to be included into the article. [Soffredo] 19:00, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

9.1-9.3[edit]

USGS says 9.1, so why 9.1-9.3? 78.156.109.166 (talk) 08:46, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Because the magnitude has also been calculated by various other agencies and academic groups - see Talk:2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami/Archive_8#Earthquake_Magnitude for more details. Mikenorton (talk) 18:28, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 December 2013[edit]

In second paragraph, suggest replacing (98ft) with (100ft).

Since the prior phrase "30 metres" was meant as a round number, 100ft would be a more faithful translation than 98ft. Mathematically, 30 metres is nearer 98.4252 feet, but that's not the point. Extraneous precision is misleading in cases like this. The point to be conveyed (in whatever units of measure are most familiar to the reader) was that the waves were monstrously large. 100feet conveys "large" very effectively, while 98ft implies that someone was out there making measurements accurate to the nearest foot. Oh no they weren't.

Thank you.

174.111.17.223 (talk) 22:35, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

  • Done. Added sigfig=1 to the {{convert}} template, like was already done in the article body. This was a technical/MOS issue and didn't require additional sourcing. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:36, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2014[edit]

I would like to request that in the country effected that you put Kenya 81.151.114.120 (talk) 17:45, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} (tec) 18:04, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Kenya is already mentioned in the article body. So is Myanmar (Burma), Maldives, Malaysia, Tanzania, Seychelles, Bangladesh, South Africa, Yemen and Madagascar, almost all of which were affected to a greater degree than Kenya, but aren't included in the infobox. --Paul_012 (talk) 03:09, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2014[edit]

Same problem, new instance. Wikipedia's own internal automated measurement conversions are inventing higher precision than is factual. Problem arises in the sentence...

It also caused the Earth to minutely "wobble" on its axis by up to 2.5 cm (0.98 in)

...the original source for this statement no doubt said "up to an inch" with the speaker having had every intention of implying no more precision than "roughly the width of my own thumb." Someone then translated "an inch" into 2.54cm. Someone else rounded that down to 2.5cm. Someone else then divided by 2.54 to return to 0.98in (parenthetically). Result: the signal has been lost in the noise. The following rephrase...

It also caused the Earth to minutely "wobble" on its axis by up to an inch (a couple of centimetres)

...would come much closer to faithfully conveying the original intent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.111.17.223 (talk) 03:25, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

The problem here appears to have been a misunderstanding of the "sigfig" parameter. Removed that, simply replaced with "0" (which means round to 0 spots) and it now rounds up to 1 inch. Not perfect, but I'm not keen on having this be the one place in the article where we give imperial first and metric second, it would stand out. I also don't want to jump to 2.54cm because, again, that's kind of too precise as well. "Up to an inch" is as vague a measurement as someone can get, we obviously don't want to give the precise conversions. Saying 2.5 cm / 1 in is sufficient and matches the spirit of what was said. --Golbez (talk) 13:39, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Precursor event?[edit]

I would not consider the temporary dropping water table in a lake on the other side of the globe (Boiling Lake, Dominica) a precursor to the Indian Ocean earthquake without solid evidence. Unless scientific data support this claim, it is mere coincidence and including it in the article amounts to advertising a tourism destination. (Paaskynen (talk) 04:21, 27 May 2014 (UTC))

Agreed and removed - the cited source didn't really support it anyway. Mikenorton (talk) 07:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2014[edit]

|row=Malaysia |column=Displaced |At least 10000 58.26.127.148 (talk) 14:16, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —cyberpower ChatOnline 08:19, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2014[edit]

http://www.ukm.my/geografia/images/upload/4.2009-1-katiman-melayu-2.pdf 58.26.127.148 (talk) 14:30, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —cyberpower ChatOnline 08:20, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2014[edit]

The second paragraph of the "Earthquake Characteristics" section is in serious need of copy-editing. I recommend replacing

The hypocentre of the main earthquake was approximately 160 km (100 mi), in the Indian Ocean just north of Simeulue island, off the western coast of northern Sumatra, at a depth of 30 km (19 mi) below mean sea level (initially reported as 10 km (6.2 mi)). The northern section of the Sunda megathrust, ruptured; the rupture having a length of 1,300 km (810 mi).

with the following:

The hypocentre of the main earthquake was approximately 160 km (100 mi) off the western coast of northern Sumatra, in the Indian Ocean just north of Simeulue island at a depth of 30 km (19 mi) below mean sea level (initially reported as 10 km (6.2 mi)). The northern section of the Sunda megathrust ruptured over a length of 1,300 km (810 mi).

130.216.218.47 (talk) 06:37, 8 August 2014 (UTC)