Talk:Tea Party protests

Cleanup

Today I went on a rampage of editing on this page. A good chunk of it involved removing either unreliable citations (no, "WingNutDaily.com" is not considered a reliable source) or citations that did not include information on what they were supposed to be citing. I made a conscious decision not to fix the citation issues, but to remove them. I figured that false or misleading information is worse than no information, and gathering that there is no lack of interest in this page I don't see how others can't fix the problems.

I found that there was also a great deal of words and implications not meeting NPOV standards. I fixed as many as I can such as correcting "nationalizing of health care", a statement that the "March on Washington" was the biggest conservative march ever which used only inflated attendance numbers from right-wing sources, and a sentence implying that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 has AIG bonus provisions in it which is bogus.

I don't want to get into a political debate about the childish tiffs Republicans and Democrats are having with each other, like others on the surrounding Tea Party pages seem to be engaging in. I am only interested in making Wikipedia the most accurate and neutral encyclopedia ever. Because I was following as many Wikipedia standards as possible, such as WP:MOS, WP:NPOV, WP:CITE and WP:REF, with a dictionary open, I am confident that my edits are accurate. Therefore, please bring your thoughts of reversions to the talk page before you execute. GnarlyLikeWhoa (talk) 06:55, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Controversy Section

I've made radical changes to this section. It has taken on different headings so I'm just calling it controversy. I've kept instances during Tea Party protests. I've removed what was flimsy, unnecessary and not-notable, in my opinion. I moved the parts that better belong in the Tea Party movement. I have read this talk page and that of the movement. The conversations were more about personal and partisan debating than what actually helps these articles. Grievances?.. Please post below. †TE†Talk 19:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Agree.Malke2010 19:29, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

If anything, the section needs to be expanded. You're toning down how dangerous these people truly are.--99.101.160.159 (talk) 20:26, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The above comment is from an obvious POV Pusher. Try and keep the rhetoric neutral.--Jojhutton (talk) 20:29, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Is all this just rhetoric?

Tea Party Protests: 'Ni**er,' 'Fa**ot' Shouted At Members Of Congress http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html

Congressman Spit On By Tea Party Protester (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/28/congressman-spit-on-by-te_n_516300.html

Rand Paul Supporter Stomps On MoveOn Member's Head (VIDEO) (UPDATED) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head_n_773857.html

Black GOP Official Resigns Citing Arizona Tea Party Threats http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/12/anthony-miller-resigns-giffords-threats_n_808116.html

New Mexican Tea Partiers Bring Guns To Anti-Obama Rally http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/new_mexican_tea_partiers_bring_guns_to_anti-obama.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.169.66.28 (talk) 00:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Inappropriate Events redux

This section is slanted towards one point of view. I see no logical reason for the Breitbart response to be removed from the section, with the primary logic against being a strange negative fallacy argument. The current removal of balance to the section continues to be removed under the guise "routine per talk". I would like to see that presented here for clarrification. Arzel (talk) 15:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

You have misunderstood the pretense of the removal of the partial Breitbart content. We can add the complete Breitbart content (including Trumka's direct response and the AP's investigation that shows Breitbart cited irrelevant video as 'proof', etc.), or we can remove the Breitbart content completely, since he wasn't there, and wasn't involved. The addition of just a POV, incomplete version of the Breitbart content has been routinely removed, as you have noted. Xenophrenic (talk) 16:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Someone does not have to be there for their opinion to have relevance. He is a notable figure within the movement.^{[citation needed]} What you feel if irrelevant is not equal to what others feel is irrelevant. Arzel (talk) 23:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to read more about that "notable figure" thing; source? As for Breitbart's opinions being relevant, you are welcome to your opinion, and I didn't say his opinion was irrelevant. Again you have misunderstood. If you'll read just one paragraph above, you see that I said the AP's investigation that shows Breitbart cited irrelevant video as 'proof'. The video Breitbart cited, and posted with his tirades, was not of the incident where the congressmen heard the slurs -- the video was irrelevant. As I've said before, I take no issue with having the Breitbart stuff in the article, although it is not my preferred choice. Let me know if there's anything else I can clear up for you. Xenophrenic (talk) 06:06, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, if you think about the video presented it says a lot more than you would think. Thus far the only video that anyone has presented has not shown any racist remarks that I am aware of...certainly not the use of the n-word. Do you really believe that this group of people suddenly turned racist for one specific point in time during that day while just being really pissed off and not racist the rest of the day? If I understand you correctly, video from the day which doesn't prove the Tea Partiers to be racist is irrelevant. Arzel (talk) 19:01, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

The video presented by Breitbart as proof was of the lawmakers leaving the Capitol building, more than an hour after hearing and reporting the racial slurs. It is irrelevant (and misleading, the way he presented it). None of the other half-dozen videos thus far made public (including TE's favorite linked in the following paragraph) have audio recordings of what the congressmen heard as they left the Cannon building, so they prove absolutely nothing about what the congressmen did or didn't hear. The audio pickup range for intelligible sound on all of those videos is about 15 feet. Do I believe the group turned racist? That is a laughable strawman -- of course not. According to the reports that were made, the word "nigger" was interspersed between the chanting of "kill the bill" by a few protesters. Out of the hundreds or thousands that were there protesting, a few idiots does not a racist group make -- yet you keep trying to mount a defense against an accusation that hundreds of people all turned racist. No one has made that charge. Xenophrenic (talk) 21:06, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I think this racism charge is a load of crap. Are there going to be fringers?.. Sure, like all movements. Could someone have dropped the N-bomb that day?.. Of course, just not where they claim according to video from many different angles. This event was hastily reported, which brought us many contradictions. You got people who weren't even there being reported as if they were. Cleaver was not there, a good reporter would have scrutinized his words. There was even a white congressmen misquoted as being there and hearing the dreaded N. Both were found to be false. You got this Trumka guy, disingenuously claiming to have seen protesters spitting on congressmen and hearing John Lewis being called the N-word. What a joke.

The fact of the matter is that shoddy journalism has it's place in wikipedia, provided they are considered to usually be reliable. †TE†Talk 19:53, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Could someone have dropped the N-bomb that day?.. Of course -- and we have several credible eyewitnesses as proof, including Cleaver (who was there - but you go right ahead and keep repeating that falsehood that he wasn't). But as you note, shoddy journalism has its place in Wikipedia, so some folks try to add Breitbart. Do a few racist idiots changing the "Kill the bill!" chant briefly into a "Kill the bill, nigger!" chant, as the black lawmakers passed by, make the whole crowd racist? Of course not, but then I haven't heard that claim made. Do the few homophobic bigots that accosted Barney Frank in three different incidents make the whole protest group bigoted? Of course not. Does the tea party organizer who complained about "spics" and wished he had his gun make his whole group dangerous bigots? No, it doesn't. Do the guys carrying automatic weapons and signs that read "If Brown can't fix it, a Browning can!" to protest rallies make the whole movement extremist? No, it doesn't. Death threat voicemails? "Fringers", as you say. Nooses and swastikas faxed to the lawmakers? More fringers. Signs depicting Obama in whiteface, or as an african tribal chieftain, or as a chimpanzee, or as Hitler... obviously fringers. T-shirts saying "Obama, go back to Kenya!" or signs referring to "White Slavery" - even more fringers. Cut gas lines, spitting, birther signs, "literacy tests" as part of voter eligibility - these fringers do not represent the "real" tea party. Some have opined that the Tea Party would appear a lot more credible if they spent at least half as much time denouncing the bad behavior as they do trying to deny that it even exists. I think that is a valid point. Xenophrenic (talk) 21:06, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Why do you react as if I just insulted your mother? I am just stating facts with my own personal opinion of the reporting. Cleaver was not there! It's not like I'm making it up, I am going by Carson's account:

• REPORTER: Outside of this building?

• REP. CARSON: Cannon....coming out with John Lewis out of the elevator with his chief of staff, and it was just the

three of us walking down the steps -- 'kill the bill', 'kill the bill'...n - word fifteen times.

• REPORTER: How many people were saying it?

• REP. CARSON: Maybe out of...how many people are out there?...four hundred? Maybe fifteen people about fifteen times.

• REPORTER: What were they saying? Just 'kill the bill'?

• REP. CARSON: 'kill the bill' and then the n - word (imitates crowd yelling racial slur) Lewis, his chief of staff,

and myself (a former cop) I'm closer to Lewis... [we were] very stoic, looked straight forward, and Capitol Police

got the idea. They started surrounding us. It was like a page out of a time machine.

See, no Cleaver. There is also video of Carson, Lewis and his chief of staff leaving Cannon and crossing Independence.

• From top of the steps
• From bottom of the steps
• From across the street

Again, no Cleaver, or Trumka, or Breitbart, or Jesus Joseph and Mary, and certainly no audible chants of "nigger". That's not saying it didn't happen, just not where and how Carson described it. I see you have listed every offensive sign or act associated with tea parties. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of tea parties. There have been hundreds of thousands, if not millions of participants? They have been covered by media and opponents during these well publicized events. Of course the examples you listed are of fringe elements, by definition. I think some editors may be too emotionally invested in these (tea party related) articles. †TE†Talk 23:04, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm acting like you insulted my mother? In what way? The three videos you have linked provide a grand total of about 15 seconds of the several minute walk the lawmakers took as they left Cannon. As I noted above, the audio from those videos is not proof. I'm also not sure what you mean by, "not where and how Carson described it." Carson said it was the three of them walking to the Capitol building, and the videos show three gentlemen walking down the Cannon steps. That sounds accurate to me. The videos also show, as Carson indicated, that they were not yet being escorted by police at that point. It would be logical to assume that is because there was nothing yet to "protect" them from at that point... but their walk continued all the way to the Capitol. Have you seen the videos of them walking up the Capitol steps? By the way, I have not "listed every offensive act" associated with the tea parties -- not even close. That was just a handful, and as you note, there have been hundreds of rallies since last year, so there is no dearth of sources for such behavior. The point I was expressing with those few examples was that claiming "that didn't happen because we aren't bigots!!!" draws up a little short in the common sense department. The "we aren't bigots" part is plausible, but that doesn't mean the fringe minority isn't also there in the midst of the movement doing stupid things. This guy sums up a similar sentiment. Xenophrenic (talk) 05:32, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Now it didn't happen at Cannon, eh? When did this happen? Let's take a look at your tergiversation...

• "Oh, and Andre Carson was one of the black gentlemen being called "nigger" as they left the Cannon building. [2], [3]. It is curious that no Tea Partiers are eagerly offering up video (or audio) taken near the Cannon building where the epithets were actually hurled."
• "it does not show the lawmakers leaving the Cannon building, where the reported racial slurs were yelled"
• "The congressmen heard the slurs as they left the Cannon building on their way to the Capitol"
• "None of the other half-dozen videos thus far made public (including TE's favorite linked in the following paragraph) have audio recordings of what the congressmen heard as they left the Cannon building, so they prove absolutely nothing about what the congressmen did or didn't hear"

To answer your questions the mother thing was me saying you seem to be personally offended. No I have not seen the video of them walking up the steps at the Capitol building because it doesn't exist. The video you keep referring to is them walking up the steps of the Cannon Building, at least an hour after the Carson, Lewis and his aide walked to the Capitol. This is the point I am trying to convey to you. †TE†Talk 05:54, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

No, rest assured, no offense taken. With regards your persistent stupefaction, I think you'd manage a firmer grasp of the sequence of events if you didn't take certain words of Carson's at the expense of others. Carson heard slurs after he left Cannon. He also described thusly:

• Soon after leaving Cannon, "I hear someone say it," said Carson, a former police officer. "You see one or two tea party people kind of look at him, and then you hear it again as we're walking. Then we walk across (Independence Avenue), and that's when it starts getting deeper." Carson said he heard it coming from different places in the crowd. "You heard it in spurts, in the midst of 'Kill the bill. Kill the bill.' One guy, I remember he just rattled it off several times. Then John looks at me and says, 'You know, this reminds me of a different time.'"

Just like you, all I have to go on are the facts, and my own opinion of the reporting. Lewis never went to the press, but confirmations were there. As for Cleaver, he specifically says he heard the racial epithet from the crowd as well. "Distinctly", I believe was the word he used. I know Cleaver was not with Carson when Carson left the Cannon building; I also know that Cleaver was with (several yards behind, anyway) Carson when they walked from the Capitol to the Cannon building. When and where, exactly, did Cleaver hear slurs? I am unaware of any reports that go into that much detail, and I do know he hasn't been eager to "fan the flames" of the incidents with media interviews. Xenophrenic (talk) 07:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ With regards your persistent stupefaction, I think you'd manage a firmer grasp of the sequence of events if you didn't take certain words of Carson's at the expense of others. Carson heard slurs after he left Cannon. He also described thusly on March 20th, minutes after the voyage:

• REP. CARSON:John Lewis...n - word, n - word at least 15 times...hundreds of people, and Capitol Police finally became aware and started protecting us. I want to know...those people who had cameras. I would love to get the actual [video].
• REPORTER: When did this happen...just now....right before votes?
• REP. CARSON: Just now.
• PICKET: What exactly happened? I'm sorry. I came in late here.
• REPORTER: Outside of this building?
• REP. CARSON: Cannon....coming out with John Lewis out of the elevator with his chief of staff, and it was just the three of us walking down the steps -- 'kill the bill', 'kill the bill'...n - word fifteen times.
• REPORTER: How many people were saying it?
• REP. CARSON: Maybe out of...how many people are out there?...four hundred? Maybe fifteen people about fifteen times.
• REPORTER: What were they saying? Just 'kill the bill'?
• REP. CARSON: 'kill the bill' and then the n - word (imitates crowd yelling racial slur) Lewis, his chief of staff, and myself (a former cop) I'm closer to Lewis... [we were] very stoic, looked straight forward, and Capitol Police got the idea. They started surrounding us. It was like a page out of a time machine.
• PICKET: What are your thoughts on the crowd outside in general?
• REP. CARSON: It's America. Welcome to America.
• REPORTER: I'm afraid I don't know who you are.
• REP. CARSON: Congressman Andre Carson...Indianapolis, Indiana seventh Congressional district--myself John Lewis and his chief of staff. It was unbelievable.
• REPORTER2: Coming out of Cannon?
• REP. CARSON: Yeah, I expected rocks to come. I mean...I'm walking with John Lewis who walked with MLK. It was bizarre, but he's been there done that.
• PICKET: You were scared of the crowd?
• REP. CARSON: Me? No, I'm a former cop, but I became protective of Congressman Lewis, and a person said, 'I'm being reminded of another time' as we're walking. It was like an old sage. For him to say that is (inaudible) been there done that. A young 35 year old like myself, I'm being protective of the older sage along with this chief of staff. We kept walking. The walk usually takes a couple of minutes. It felt like ten minutes.
• PICKET: Do you think the people outside are generally dangerous or no?
• REP. CARSON: Oh absolutely. I worked in homeland security. I'm from intelligence, and I'll tell you, one of the largest threats to our internal security...I mean terrorism has an Islamic face, but it really comes from racial supremacist groups. (inaudible) Its the kind of thing we keep a threat assessment on record [for].
• PICKET: From groups like this?
• REP. CARSON: Oh absolutely.
• REPORTER: Was there any physical? Did they touch? Did they push? No one threw anything?
• REP. CARSON: No, no, no. I heard one 'go Carson'--obviously a Hooiser. It made me feel a little better, but then the Capitol Police finally got the idea--remember, it was just the three of us...my police instinct kicked in, (inaudible) and they got the idea.

When is your quote from?.. April 13th. I respect Carson's right to change his story, but it usually comes at the expense of credibility. Him being a cop, knows that the first version is the police report. The second would be on the witness stand (minus the oath), where a defense lawyer would pounce raise suspicion of the validity of his ever changing recollection. I'm glad to see that you finally concede that Cleaver did not walk with Carson, Lewis and his aide to the Capitol Building. I am also glad to see you also concede that Cleaver was indeed only with Lewis as the many of the CBC returned to the Cannon building, when Cleaver was spat upon (on the steps of Cannon). I am well aware that Cleaver said he distinctly heard "nigger," it's too bad he wasn't there when then slurs were reported by shoddy journalists. As for the level of detail in the reports, AP ran a correction from Cleaver's bogus statement that Capitol police arrested the sprayer. In it, they clarified that "Cleaver, who is black, was also one of several lawmakers who faced racial epithets as they walked to the Capitol to vote. Sgt. Kimberly Schneider of the U.S. Capitol Police said in an e-mail later: "We did not make any arrests today." Well, at least we know that they (falsely) put Cleaver with Lewis during a trek to the Capitol building. If only they knew that the faux arrest was just one of many inaccuracies in Cleaver's official statement:

• "For many of the members of the CBC, like John Lewis and Emanuel Cleaver who worked in the civil rights movement, and for Mr. Frank who has struggled in the cause of equality, this is not the first time they have been spit on during turbulent times.
• This afternoon, the Congressman was walking into the Capitol to vote, when one protester spat on him. The Congressman would like to thank the US Capitol Police officer who quickly escorted the others Members and him into the Capitol, and defused the tense situation with professionalism and care. After all the Members were safe, a full report was taken and the matter was handled by the US Capitol Police. The man who spat on the Congressman was arrested, but the Congressman has chosen not to press charges. He has left the matter with the Capitol Police.
• This is not the first time the Congressman has been called the "n" word and certainly not the worst assault he has endured in his years fighting for equal rights for all Americans. That being said, he is disappointed that in the 21st century our national discourse has devolved to the point of name calling and spitting. He looks forward to taking a historic vote on health care reform legislation tomorrow, for the residents of the Fifth District of Missouri and for all Americans. He believes deeply that tomorrow's vote is, in fact, a vote for equality and to secure health care as a right for all. Our nation has a history of struggling each time we expand rights. Today's protests are no different, but the Congressman believes this is worth fighting for.

I mean, wow! That is one whopper for the record books. I actually feel bad for the media in taking Cleaver's word at face value. I also understand that they have a job to scrutinize his words, and failed miserably. So, I was just thinking about how bored I am of this complete waste of time. I consider this closed. I suppose you might want to deny your concessions or the fact that your story has evolved greatly in the past day, week, and month. That is just fine by me. Cheers. †TE†Talk 21:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

It sounds like we agree more than we disagree. Neither Carson, nor Cleaver, have "changed their story" since the events. Obviously, more details have become available as time passed and more reporting was done, but there have not been any reversals of reported major facts - only clarifications. Yes, Cleaver was there, while Breitbart was not, and Cleaver heard epithets, too. Yes, Carson heard racial epithets as he "voyaged" from Cannon to the Capitol building. Yes, Cleaver was spat upon, and he complained about it to the police. There is actually film footage (deadlinks now, go figure) of the spitter being led by the arm by police as they separated him from the crowd and spoke with him, taken by a channel 4 FOX news affiliate cameraman on those very steps -- while that doesn't constitute an "arrest", it is an easy assumption to make. I don't see the "whopper for the books" you see, TE. My point stands: If you try to portray the events just on select words from a single source, instead of all of the reporting that is available, you are going to paint a rather distorted picture. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:18, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

TE makes a good point here. Also, editors might not be aware that the reporters actually get invited to the meetings the tea party groups hold, and so far nobody has written an article about any racism or homophobia within these meetings. That's probably because the fringers aren't invited to these meetings. So we're just talking about fringers and the more attention you give them, as does the media who want to sell newspapers and magazines and newshows, then the more it will seem like that is the sum total of the Tea Party protests/Tea Party Movement. But it is not. I know about the reporters, because I emailed a New York Times reporter recently and she told me she does go to these meetings and there is no racism, no homophobia, just folks talking about government spending, foreclosures, bailouts, the usual menu. So the question is, are you interested in the Tea Party protests/movement, or just the fringers and what they have to say? Because we can make a separate article for them, so we can get back to editing the Tea Party Protests/Movement articles.Malke2010 00:50, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

If your question is addressed to me, Malke, the answer is "no and no". Xenophrenic (talk) 05:32, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Proposed removal of coat rack and POV-check templates

Previous discussion on this page being tl;dr for me, is anyone opposed to removing the {{coat rack}} and {{POV-check}} templates from the article? ...comments? ~BFizz 22:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Mediocre prose: the pov section

The section labeled "Reports of abusive behavior by Tea Party protesters" has been given the POV sign. Not because the abusive behavior is 100% false, but because the section has mediocre prose that brings up several trivial or emotional examples rather than saying anything actually notable or of value. Being called "the N-word", “Schlomo Weiner", or "faggot" is not a shocking event. Most of today's movies depict much worse. Can someone familiar with the situation and press around this please cut the fluff? ...comments? ~BFizz 23:20, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Mediocre prose? MEDIOCRE PROSE!?! What're you, Faulkner? I've never read ANYTHING in Wikipedia that had decent prose! I'll settle for rationality. Triviality and emotionalism are another matter. richrakh````

Trevor Leach

He's mentioned prominently in the article, but it's not clear when he became chairman of the NY chapter. The best I could do in a 15-minute web search: http://www.yaliberty.org/posts/trevor-leach-appointed-yal-new-york-state-chairman -- not WP:RS. Anybody have a reference? Can we add a start date and "as of July 2011"? -- Jo3sampl (talk) 20:07, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Presidential campaign in 2007, not the protests of 2009

See for yourself [1]--24.171.6.27 (talk) 16:08, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I see a YouTube video from an unreliable mystery source purporting to show that Paul's campaign and supporters made references to the 1773 Tea Party and "revolution" as part of his presidential campaign. This article, on the other hand, is about the protests that started in 2009. Xenophrenic (talk) 16:53, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Actually the source of the video is irrelevant but the source(s) of the content within the video are relevant and also quite obvious. They are all clips from mainstream television networks and clearly labeled. In addition the video does not simply "show that Paul's supporters made references to the 1773 Tea Party" during his 2007 campaign as you stated. It shows they referred to their fundraisers and protests as Tea Parties in 2007 and it shows footage from a few of those protests. Furthermore the video includes well known mainstream media figures like Juan Williams, Rachel Maddow, Chris Wallace and Chuck Todd saying things like Ron Paul supporters started the Tea Party in 2007 and Ron Paul is the Godfather of the Tea Party.

While the video may not be a good reference for this article nor does it prove who started the Tea Party protests or when they started(as if that's possible), it certainly points out the fact that there are alternative views as to when they did start and who started them. It also points out that there were Tea Party protests in 2007. So far this page fails to represent the topic accurately and without bias because it fails to represent a well documented and widely held alternative view. The article opens with "The Tea Party protests are a series of protests across the United States that began in early 2009." That statement only represents one side of the argument as if it were fact and does not mention the 2007 Tea Party Protests.--76.20.32.102 (talk) 05:33, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

The source of the video is very relevant. It is not from a reliable source (so is absolutely "not a good reference" for this or any Wikipedia article). It also does not "prove" anything about the start of the present Tea Party movement - which becomes even more evident once you see that it tries to claim origins as far back as 2007. It contains a number of video snippets, with no indication what was said before or after those clips, or what the context might be. There have been protests and demonstrations called "Tea Parties" since as far back as the 1970s (and probably farther back). If you believe there is a "widely held alternative view" that should be represented, we'll need reliable sources discussing that view, as well as it's significance. Are there any? Xenophrenic (talk) 06:10, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Sure here are just a few:

1. The vindication of Ron Paul. Will founding father of the tea party movement get his due from party leaders? (Baltimore Sun 11/2010)

Remember, it was Ron Paul supporters who kick-started the tea party into life on Dec. 16, 2007, when they dumped a $6 million "money bomb" into his presidential campaign on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. Not that all or even most tea partiers are Paulians when the rubber meets the road.

• By opinion talk show host Ron Smith (radio host). Note that he describes the "Tea Party" as a campaign drive to elect Paul as president, not as the present movement that started in 2009.

2. Was Ron Paul, tea party re-inventor, right all along?(LA Times 04/2009)

Maybe you remember about 16 months ago the 11-term Texas Republican representative, who's now organized a new Campaign for Liberty, was raking in more political contributions each month than most other GOP presidential candidates, relying on his hundreds of thousands of fervent supporters staging their money bomb days of online donations and -- oh, yes – tea parties.

• ...another opinion piece, noting the movement of supporters trying to raise money get a single individual elected, rather than describing the present movement of protesters not beholden to any individual politician.

Paul's liberty campaign today sought to remind folks of its role in the re-genesis of tea parties in 2007.

• ...by issuing a press release in April, 2009, weirdly trying to equate a presidential election fundraising drive with the new protest movement: "The concept of the modern day Tea Party began on December 16, 2007 when supporters of Ron Paul’s presidential campaign came together and raised over $6 million online in one day..."

3. Tea Party Godfather Ron Paul Running for President (ABC News 05/2011)

Paul, a native of Pittsburgh, is both a spiritual father and actual father in the tea party movement.

• He has a son in the present Tea Party movement. Now getting back to the origins of the movement that exists today, note that this article says the Paul campaign and the TP movement both use "tea party" imagery -- but it separates Ron Paul's election campaigning efforts from the present protest movement: "As far back as 2007, long before people were evoking the fabled Boston Tea Party to symbolize their disgust with an overtaxing central government, Ron Paul was hosting a "Tea Party Fundraiser"...

4. JUAN WILLIAMS: The Surprising Rise of Rep. Ron Paul(Fox News 05/2011)

The Tea Party, which drove the GOP to claim a majority of the House in the mid-term elections, grew largely out of the ashes of his 2008 presidential campaign, which emphasized limited government and a return to constitutional principles.

• Another opinion piece trying to equate Paul's "2008 presidential campaign" with the present TP movement, by noting that Paul shares the "limited government and a return to constitutional principles" attitude held by today's protesters as well as other libertarians for decades now.

5. Paul tries to reap Tea Party seeds he helped nourish(Boston Globe 07/2011)

Four years ago, Ron Paul’s libertarian views became divining rods for the brand of strident antigovernment activism that grew into the Tea Party movement. “Now that there’s a shift in attitude, a country that’s getting in worse shape by the day, all of a sudden the message becomes very appropriate,’’ the 75-year-old obstetrician and 12-term representative said in an interview.

• This article makes my point. Paul has (as have many other libertarians) always been for limited government and cutting taxes, and has seven campaigned on those issues, but "Now" there is an actual movement, and he's hoping to hitch a ride on it. The article even notes that Paul and the Tea Party are separate: "Paul and Tea Party activists may be working from the same antitax, probusiness playbook, but when matters turn to personal rights or foreign policy, their views diverge."

--76.20.32.102 (talk) 07:55, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

--Xenophrenic (talk) 18:29, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Those sources, like many others, clearly establish that an alternative view exists. Just because you don't agree with the view does not mean it doesn't exist.

Excerpt from current wiki:
"The theme of the Boston Tea Party, an iconic event of American history, has long been used by anti-tax protesters with libertarian and conservative viewpoints. It was part of Tax Day protests held throughout the 1990s and earlier. The libertarian theme of the "tea party" protest has also been used by Republican Congressman Ron Paul and his supporters during fundraising events in the primaries of the 2008 presidential campaign to emphasize Paul's fiscal conservatism, which they later claimed laid the groundwork for the modern-day Tea Party movement, although many of them also claim their movement has been hijacked by neoconservatives."

If that paragraph was written more fairly without a motive by someone with an unbiased opinion and included some sources like those I listed then the alternative view would be represented at least to some degree in a fair manner. The paragraph says, "which they later claimed laid the groundwork for the modern day tea party movement." Not only do "they" claim that but many others do as well and the sources I listed above like LA Times clearly demonstrate that. (apparently my old ip 76.20.32.102 expired so I decided to create a wiki account :) --JustaJason (talk) 06:31, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

You have misread. I do agree with the view, as shown in the above sources, that Ron Paul has previously invoked the tea party theme during his presidential campaigning — holding protests called "tea party protests" is nothing new, and Ron Paul certainly didn't invent them (see the references given in this Wikipedia article to even earlier protests than his). That would be appropriate content for his Wikipedia article, not the Tea Party movement article, nor this one. The movement that exists today didn't start until 2009, even though there have been many "tea party protests" in the past. By the way, I don't see an "LA Times" source reporting on the origins of the Tea Party movement listed above; I only see an opinion piece by commentary columnist Andrew Malcom that was printed in the LA Times. In that piece, Malcom doesn't say Paul started the Tea Party movement; he says Paul & his supporters held tea party-themed protests 16 months earlier -- something on which we all agree. Xenophrenic (talk) 17:13, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

You said "the movement that exists today didn't start until 2009." How is that a fact? What source is there that's not based on opinion with regard to the origin of the modern day Tea Party movement? If we all agree that Ron Paul supporters held tea party themed protests in 2007 and this article is titled "Tea Party Protests" then what's the problem?

You also mentioned "Malcom doesn't say Paul started the Tea Party movement; he says Paul & his supporters held tea party-themed protests 16 months earlier." I'm not sure there's much difference but are you implying that if he had specifically said Paul started the Tea Party movement you would accept it? Because plenty of people like Juan Williams have said that yet you don't accept it. He's as credible as most of the sources in the article page and he's even referenced in the current Tea Party Movement wiki as well. JustaJason (talk) 00:06, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Sorry I'm no expert on this topic but I did look at some of the old sources. I think it's clear that Ron Paul is "more recently" (as our articles say now) a godfather of the movement, and also clear that others preceded him (for example in 1991). Hope that helps. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:19, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the response Susan. I'm not too concerned about weather or not Ron Paul is credited with starting the movement. My point was that clearly Ron Paul supporters held Tea Party Protests in 2007. I agree there were similar protests even before that(though many years before). Since this page is called "Tea Party Protests" it seems the 2007 protests as well as the ones prior should be outlined in detail here. Don't they qualify under the current title? So far the arguments against including those protests seem to argue that this page is for modern day tea party protests. Then why not include "modern day" in the title? I suppose the argument then would be weather or not 2007 counts as modern day. JustaJason (talk) 10:44, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I agree 2007 protests should be here. (And 1991 if you can find any material about them. I'm old enough to think that anything after 1950 or World War II is modern day, aka contemporary history.) -SusanLesch (talk) 13:43, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate the feedback Susan and the helpful links you posted on my talk page. Obviously I'm a noob to Wikipedia so I'm still learning all the procedures. I noticed somebody changed a few very minor things to a previous comment of mine on this talk page. I'm just curious why. I quoted a portion of the wiki in a comment under "excerpt from current wiki." That portion was later edited within the Wiki article but it was also changed within my comment(I think, though all this is still a bit confusing). Here are the changes reflected in my comment. This is all new to me so I'm just trying to figure things out. JustaJason (talk) 08:34, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if the changes were "automatic" or if someone else changed them (it is possible the text is linked and somehow automagically updated). Somebody else would have to answer that. I'm going on wikibreak for a week. Good luck! -SusanLesch (talk) 19:01, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Tea Party Protests or Tea Party Protests in 2009?

I'm confused, is this article page supposed to explain Tea Party Protests or the 2009 Tea Party Protests? It seems rather lopsided if it's supposed to explain Tea Party Protests as a whole. I read a comment on this talk page that said, "This article, on the other hand, is about the protests that started in 2009," by Xenophrenic under the heading "Presidential campaign in 2007, not the protests of 2009." I would argue that this page should be combined with the "List of Tea Party protests, 2009" page that already exists if that's the case, or at the very least the title should be changed.

On the other hand if this is about Tea Party Protests as a whole why aren't there any references to the 2007 Tea Party protests? There are plenty of sources out there, including in The Tea Party Movement wiki. I can also provide sources if needed.--76.20.32.102 (talk) 05:20, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

There is already a reference to the Paul's 2007 "tea party" protests. There is also mention of other "tea party" protests earlier than those, in the 1990s and the 1980s. See the Background section. I believe this article, however, originated with the description of the protests of the present Tea Party movement. Xenophrenic (talk) 17:13, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Tea Party Arrests

There were a couple of Tea Partiers arrested; some of them were part of rallies, whereas others were unrelated to rallies.

Top Tea Party Organizer Arrested for Prostitution http://www.wisconsingazette.com/breaking-news/top-tea-party-organizer-arrested-for-prostitution.html

SC Tea Party Leaders Arrested For Selling Pirated Computer Software http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/sc_tea_party_leaders_arrested_for_selling_pirated.php

Violent tea partier arrested at Democratic rally in Houston http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/03/violent-tea-partier-arrested-at-democratic-rally-in-houston/

Tea Party Activists Hit Capitol Hill, 9 Arrested http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/tea-party-activists-hit-c_n_347016.html

Strange Scene: 10 Arrested As Tea Partiers Heckle Police http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/strange-scene-10-arrested-as-tea-party-watchers-heckle-police.php

Phoenix 'tea party' rally leads to arrests http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/04/15/20110415Phoenix-tea-party-rally-arrests-abrk.html

Please confirm these sources. Thank you. Great50 (talk) 21:13, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Tea Party Leader Flees CBS Cameras After Handgun Arrest http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/tea-party-leader-flees-cbs-cameras-after-han

Great50 (talk) 19:46, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Article is very difficult to edit

I clicked the "edit" button and was immediately confused. It is filled with so many random codes and brackets, that's it's impossible to understand what I'm looking at. Worse than looking at C code. Isn't there some way we can clean-up the article so it looks like a readable document in the Wiki-editor, instead of confusing gibberish? Thanks. ---- Theaveng (talk) 04:13, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Guess not.  :-| ---- Theaveng (talk) 18:30, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Part of what?

Since 13 Nov., the Tea Party Protests article has included:

(Infobox civil conflict)

|partof = response to excessive government social and fiscal policies.

I think that "excessive" has to be modified or attributed. -- Jo3sampl (talk) 01:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)