Talk:2012 Formula One season

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Size split?[edit]

Split - Article is over 100 kB, and should be split starting with "Changes" and/or "Race Summaries". Thoughts? Suggestions?--Jax 0677 (talk) 18:45, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Per WP:SIZE, the judgement is "Readable prose", of which this article is only 55 kB (under 10,000 words), which is right on the cuff of becoming too long but not exceeding it in any way. The359 (Talk) 19:37, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Winning constructor[edit]

In the Grand Prix section in results and standings, the table has a "Winning constructor" column that states the winning constructor of the winning driver. Shouldn't it, instead, contain the constructor who won the most points at that race? I say this because it seems we're prioritizing the driver's championship over the constructor's.

I've tried editing this article before, but someone usually jumps on me for it. So for convenience, here is a list of constructors who won the most points, but their drivers didn't come first:

  • China: Mercedes → McLaren
  • Spain: Red Bull → Lotus
  • Belgium: McLaren → Red Bull
  • Italy: McLaren → Ferrari
  • Abu Dhabi: Lotus → Ferrari
  • Brazil: McLaren → Ferrari.
  • In Hungary, both McLaren (driver's winner) and Lotus had 33 points.

--User:Kris159 (talklegacy) 16:20, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Why would it be the constructor who earned the most points. It isn't a championship, it's a race. The winner is the winner. The359 (Talk) 16:35, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
In addition, at the podium ceremony of every Grand Prix, a constructors trophy is awarded to the winning constructor. Who do you think received that trophy in every instance you stated? We cannot simply make up winners based on a measurement absolutely no one uses. The359 (Talk) 16:39, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
User:Kris159: It did actually used to be the way you suggested where the team that finished second and third COULD take the winning constructor on the day, but back in 1991 when the win became 10 points instead of 9, then a win was worth the same as second and third combined so at that point it was formally changed so the race winning constructor became the winning constructor on the day and they have never changed it back to what it was before when the points structure changed again three years ago.
So while another constructor might win more points on the day, the Constructor's Trophy for the race is now always presented to the race winning team regardless of where everybody's second car finishes and how many points they might gain.
So if you do change it in the points table it will always be changed back, because to suggest that the winning constructor is the one who gains the most points on the day is a situation that is NOT officially recognised, so other edittors are correct when they "Jump on you for it". --Falcadore (talk) 20:53, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I forgot about the podium ceremony. Good point(s). And for the record, the things editors have jumped on me for were formatting changes, not false info. --User:Kris159 (talklegacy) 21:04, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

European Grand Prix[edit]

Why does the European Grand Prix have the Spanish flag? Shouldn't it show the European Flag? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tvx1 (talkcontribs) 14:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

The European Grand Prix is not related to the European Union. The flag denotes the location of the event, not the continent in its title. Europe as a continent has no flag. The359 (Talk) 17:39, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
The flag of Europe does not only represent the European Union. It's also used to represent the continent of Europe, especially in sporting events of which a grand prix is an example. Read the article about the flag of Europe. If the flag denotes the location of the event, then why where the most recent editions of the San Marino and Luxembourg Grands Prix accompanied by the flags of San Marino and Luxembourg respectively, even though the location of these events was Italy and Germany, respectively ? I think it should show the European flag since it is called the grand prix of Europe!--Tvx1 (talk) 21:25, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
We've been through all this a number of times. What would you do about the Pacific GP? That region has no flag. Pescara? I think all the San Marino GPs were changed to the Italian flag, but some people like to change them back. There was consensus on this. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:35, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
All the Luxembourg / San Marino race articles have the flag of the host nation, as per consensus. Where did you see the Lux / SM flags? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:40, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Can you show any proof of this consensus? I still think a grand prix should carry the flag of the continent/country/region/city it is named for. After all there is a reason why it is named after that particular location. There are indeed a few exceptions where there is nog flag for that location like the Pacific GP, Pescara GP, the upcoming GP of the Americas, or even the Ceasar's Palace GP. In those examples the only option is to show the flag of the country in which the Grand Prix took place. But when the locations named in the Grands Prix's names have their own flag like San Marino, Luxembourg and Europe (and even Abu Dhabi too), those flags should be shown. The articles dealing with the Motorcycle Grand Prix World Championship work in the same way, with the Spanish, Cantalunya, Aragon and Valencia MotoGP's all showing their own flags even though they all take place in Spain. --Tvx1 (talk) 22:50, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
You sound like you don't believe it exists. Seriously, I'm not going off to dig it up. It's very long and in the archives. If you want to have the discussion out again, then take it to the WPF1 talk page – someone will soon produce the old consensus. There's also a MOS problem with the flag icon rules – flags are only supposed to represent people, teams or places, not events. Therefore the F1 flags represent countries where the races are held. The MotoGP articles violate that, and they just happen to be getting away with it. The flag deletionists love to bash WPF1 for flag use as it is. Again, if you want to have the discussion, please go ahead and do so. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:34, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
This discussion and this one and this one all refer to the pre-existing consensus which was established here. DH85868993 (talk) 02:51, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
It's obvious you didn't read the original discussion, as it is obvious that no consensus was ever established. Some users wanted to believe there was one so badly that they actually thought there was one. There obviously is no consensus on the matter as there were as many agreements as disagreements on the matter. Read through it if you don't believe me. I did. It seems that the fundamental problem with the discussion regarding the European Grand Prix is that a lot of users don't realize that the flag of Europe is not simply the flag of the EU. The flag of Europe has actually been adopted to represent the whole of Europe way before the EU was founded. The EU only adopted it as their flag to. Futhermore I do not agree that a Grand Prix has no value for the location named in the Grand Prix's name. Why don't they call them the ADAC/AvD (Germany), BRDC (Great Britain), Honda (Japan), or even Red Bull Grand Prix (Austria) instead? There obviously is a reason why Grands Prix are named after places! I think the current situation of the Spanish flag next to the European Grand Prix creates confusion for those readers who don't know all the flags of the world by heart, as they might think that flag(Spanish) is actually the flag of Europe. Finally, the collumn listing the Grands Prix Circuit gives the opportunity to show the actual location's flag, no the column listing the Grands prix. I therefore stick with my argument: I still think a grand prix should carry the flag of the continent/country/region/city it is named for. After all there is a reason why it is named after that particular location. There are indeed a few exceptions where there is nog flag for that location like the Pacific GP, Pescara GP, the upcoming GP of the Americas, or even the Ceasar's Palace GP. In those examples the only option is to show the flag of the country in which the Grand Prix took place. But when the locations named in the Grands Prix's names have their own flag like San Marino, Luxembourg and Europe (and even Abu Dhabi too), those flags should be shown. Tvx1 (talk) 14:55, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
It was established, and generally adhered to, despite the banned user Lucy-Marie being obnoxious about it. You stick with your argument, and we'll stick with the consensus. You failed to address the point about the flag MOS which permits flags for people, teams and places, not events. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:07, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Have you actually read MOS:FLAG? Nowhere do I read that an "event" can't be used in combination with a flag! It literally says "Flag icons may be relevant in some subject areas, where the subject actually represents that country, government, or nationality – such as military units, government officials, or national sports teams. In lists or tables, flag icons may be relevant when the nationality of different subjects is pertinent to the purpose of the list or table itself." Well, I think in this case they are relevant as the subjects here (i.e. the Grands Prix) represent the continents/countries/regions/cities they are named after. Why else would they be named for a continent/country/region/city in the first place and not for a Person/Organisation/Sponsor/Company ? I, for one, am a proud Belgian and our Belgian Grand Prix represents our whole nation and is something we are incredibly proud of and the flag of Belgium would have a rightful place next to the name of our Grand Prix. Tvx1 (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Don't ask stupid questions. If you'd read the discussion pages on MOSFLAG, you'd see just how much I've had to say about it. I disagree with your interpretation of the MOS and enough other people also disagree with it to make it unworkable. I don't think you appreciate how hard it has been to retain any flags in F1 articles. You have your Belgian flag in the calendar next to the circuit name, to denote where the circuit is. That is a valid use of a flag in a table per the MOS. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:14, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Lewis Hamilton[edit]

Just noticed someone seems to have changed all results which should feature Lewis Hamilton as the winner to that of Osama bin Laden, and has also changed the links to link to Osama's page. I have no idea how to fix, could someone have a look at this? (spotted 22/10/2013 @16:31 GMT+1) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.204.111.32 (talk) 15:32, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 08:54, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Official Race Edit Songs section[edit]

Many may have noticed that the Official Race Edit Songs section has been added to this article.
This is because the previous article it was included in was deleted because it was not a stand-alone article.

Please leave this section in this article.
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WesleyBranton (talkcontribs) 04:23, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Except the article that the section was "spun off from" is now at AFD, so it may be an inevitability that it will get removed soon. ZappaOMati 04:44, 8 February 2014 (UTC)