|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 40-yard dash article.|
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- 1 CJ Spiller
- 2 Untitled
- 3 Explanation of the use of 40 yard dash in football
- 4 Standard for mention of players
- 5 Ted Ginn Jr.
- 6 Ben Johnson's 40 yd time
- 7 Outlandishly-fast times
- 8 Vandalism removed
- 9 No sources
- 10 Needs to be rewritten
- 11 Hester?
- 12 What is actually "Fast"?
- 13 3.9??
- 14 who is powell?
- 15 Not Verified tag
- 16 More clarity needed for how the "football forty is timed"
- 17 Fastest times ==
- 18 This needs a citation, right?
- 19 Jacoby Ford
- 20 overlooking something
- 21 Edit request on 19 December 2011
- 22 Edit request on 7 January 2012
- 23 Michael Jordan ran a 4.3
- 24 Formatting problem
- 25 Is www.nflcombineresults.com reliable?
- 26 Tavon Austin shouldn't be on the list?
- 27 Bo Jackson
- 28 Not official, wrong data
- It is not important what "they" said, all that counts is what's written here. --bender235 (talk) 10:42, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, why should the times on NFL.com be considered "official?" There is no such thing as an "official" 40 time.
- Here are two sites that have him at 4.27
The citations were simply edited wrong, they have been restored.Jbonneau 18:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Explanation of the use of 40 yard dash in football
This statement is problematic-- "Therefore, if a coach knows that a player runs 40 yards in 4.5 seconds, he will be able to leave the line of scrimmage when a punt is kicked, and reach at the point where the ball comes down just as it arrives."
At the NFL Combine, players don't run in full equipment. So while the 40-yard dash is a measurement of the player's raw speed, his 40 time isn't going to translate exactly to the playing field. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 04:50, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Standard for mention of players
In order to mention players on this page as having allegedly run fast 40 times, it should be that their corresponding page makes such claims. This is not true in the case of Vick or Coles, they should either be removed from this page or their pages should be updated.Jbonneau 18:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think the standard should be higher yet; there should be a verifiable source outside of Wikipedia for the claim. If the corresponding player article provides such a source, then we'll use that; otherwise, even if the corresponding article makes the claim, it is unsourced and should be removed if one is not provided. I will now place Template:citationneeded tags on each of the players accordingly. —Sesquialtera II (talk) 20:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
To have a level playing field for these 40 times, they must reference only times taken at NFL Combine. Even those have differences, because the combine has been at Indy since 1987, one year after Bo Jackson ran his 4.12. And even at Indy, the surface changed ten years ago and times became faster across the board since. Also, there actually is no such thing as one, single "official" 40 time at the combine. National Scouting, which runs the combine, provides three times per run, two hand-held and one electronic. Each player may run twice, thereby yielding a potential six times. National Scouting provides all six of these times to NFL teams. The teams then do what they want with those times, or ignore them. Some teams use the best electronic time. Some teams throw out the fastest and slowest and average the rest. Some teams use the best time provided. And some teams use a time provided by their own scout on site. So unless somebody has the actual report showing all six times, it may be impossible to know exactly what 40 time is being reported.FCooney 01:46, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Eric Park is somebody of no relevance to this article. And he's a poser.
Ted Ginn Jr.
Didn't Ted Ginn Jr. run a record breaking 4.06 run? i think it should be added.Doorknob123 13:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- I did a search and found a Daily News article that supports this, so I will add it. —Sesquialtera II (talk) 20:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- Ted Ginn Jr. did not even run the 40 at this year's Indianapolis Combine. And when considering "legitimate" 40 times, it would be inappropriate to consider times turned in from various locations, conditions, methods because there are too many variables involved to consider such times as being relative. FCooney 01:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
- He reportedly ran in the 4.4 (+/- 0.02) range at a pro day in Columbus. I don't have a reliable source for that. --Mr Wednesday 20:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Ben Johnson's 40 yd time
The Ziegler article that was cited reports his 40 yd time as 4.38 s, which is not the 40 m time listed in this article but is also not the 40 yd time listed in this article. Any chance of getting this reconciled? --Mr Wednesday 20:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I have read on different coaching forums that Johnsons 40 yd time was 4.38 s in that race. It seems to be what most people claim so maybe it should be changed here. Sleinad 20:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Players such as Randal Williams (4.04), Bo Jackson (4.12), Michael Bennett (4.13), Jerome Mathis (4.25) ,DeAngelo Hall (4.15), Michael Vick (4.25),Lee Suggs (4.27), Don Beebe (4.21), Randy Moss (4.25), Darrell Green (4.15, 4.2), and Laveranues Coles (4.2) have approached that mark.
I suggest deleting this entire sentence. We spend a lot of time in this article establishing that times below 4.20 seconds are virtually impossible to attain, yet this sentence seems to give credibility to these times with the "approached that mark" phrase. Funnyhat 17:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
The American football 40-yard dash is its own reference frame; it is accepted as being different than official Olympic times, but the times are nonetheless internally coherent and are useful in comparing players. In other words, a 4.3 football 40 is slower than a 4.3 Olympic 40, but a 4.3 football 40 is still a useful and consistent measurement that means something in the world of football. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 18:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- That's a great point. Since we can't arbitrarily add 0.2 seconds or so to the times that NFL people are claiming, it should be noted in the article even more specifically that NFL times are not comparable to Olympic times, due to the hand timing reasons mentioned in the article. Radishes (talk) 17:35, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
This article does not cite any of its sources, and frankly many of the 40 times quoted are extremely suspect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sean10mm (talk • contribs) 19:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Needs to be rewritten
This page is just plain bad. I came here to learn about the 40-yard dash and got an unintelligible mish-mash of uncited numbers and suspect logic. Needs heavy editing, at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 05:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- Completely agree with the above post. The article in particular breaks down near the end. I've noticed something of a trend in sports articles on Wikipedia - sports topics that aren't especially notable seem to have been repeatedly edited by fans and followers of the sport in question, resulting in a mish-mash of contradictory facts and opinions. Radishes (talk) 17:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Is he really the "... now considered one of the best kick returners in NFL history and holds numerous return records." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 21:37, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
What is actually "Fast"?
It would seem, after much reading and research, that the 4.3 is not impossible, just not nearly as likely as folks would have you believe.
So, if you are a skill position player in the NFL, and run a fully electronically timed 40 yd dash in the 4.6's, you are NOT slow, one might say you're a step faster than most. 4.7's = Average. If you run in the 4.5's, you are FAST. In the 4.4's, you are VERY FAST. In the 4.3's, you should be in the OLYMPICS, 4.2's means you are either lying or you have been hand timed by a coach with an itchy finger.
Conversely, the definition of "FAST" for collegiate times can be rolled back a tenth, and high school times an additional tenth or two, from those above numbers.
But nobody will go to full-scale electronic timing, just because no one wants to be seen as slow compared to the times they read about. Hand timing will always reign. Ideally coaches should time their players in full pads, on grass, over 25 yards to get a true read of how fast their guys are. But that will never happen. So, just be smart enough to take the times you read about with a grain of salt....for instance 4.57 backwards? Please! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deke49 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The fastest ever recorded was Joey Galloway in a individual workout with the Seattle Seahawks before they drafted him. He ran a 3.9.
who is powell?
there is a reference to "powell" in the article with no first name ... someone who give a rip about sprinters please clean this up, thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 16:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Not Verified tag
More clarity needed for how the "football forty is timed"
excerpts from a FoxSports.com article at the 2001 draft by Clark Judge. The last paragraph seems to negate much of the talk here: "I never saw Vick run a 40, and I wasn't at his workout at Virginia Tech. But one thing I can guarantee is this: Vick cannot run the 40 in under 4.3 seconds. Heck, he can't run it under 4.4, either. That's not a knock on Vick. It's a knock on an NFL practice that is absolutely, positively out of whack. I'm talking about 40-yard dash times. They're the standard by which draft-eligible players are measured, and they're as reliable as UFO sightings. Yet when the NFL begins its march of draftees on Saturday you're going to hear how one running back ran a 4.32, a wide receiver peeled off a 4.34 or some 350-pound lummox breezed through a 4.85. It makes for good copy. But so did Paul Bunyan.
"The only way to get a true 40-yard dash time is to get electronic timing where a man breaks a wire when he leaves the starting gate," said Buffalo's vice president in charge of player personnel, Dwight Adams. "The 40 is a common denominator in football, but it's blown way out of proportion. It's physically impossible to run a 4.2 and, probably, a 4.3. Check with the good track coaches/and sprinters across America, like Brooks Johnson the Olympic sprint coach"
Don't tell that to the guys holding stopwatches. I remember when Vance Johnson, then a wide receiver at the University of Arizona, ran the 40 in 4.19 seconds. At least that's what I was told. I guess Denver was, too, because the Broncos made him their second-round draft pick in 1985. I also remember when Laveranues Coles, then a wide receiver at Florida State, was supposed to have run a 4.16. Nobody said anything about it being wind-aided, but it would have taken Hurricane Andrew to push him to a finish like that. The Jets media guide has him clocked at 4.29 last year, and there was no wind advisory there, either.
The NFL scouting combine has been using electronic timing since 1990, but that's one year after Deion Sanders set the standard against which all others are measured. Sanders ran a 4.29 in Prime Time, and nobody has beaten the mark since. "You've got to take into consideration that most of these times are done with stopwatches," said San Diego State's Rahn Sheffield, coach of the women's track and field squad and a former track star himself. "A 4.2 really translates to a 4.4. When you hand time (dashes) it opens up room for human error. So when a Marshall Faulk runs a 4.33, it really equates to a 4.5." All of which comes as no news to Adams, who for years has laughed off 40-yard dashes and vertical jumps and long jumps as insignificant measures of a football prospect's abilities. He's more interested in production, which makes a lot of sense to me & anyone else who believes stopwatches weren't made for football. Remember when Jerry Rice emerged from Mississippi Valley State in 1985? He was supposed to be too slow. Same with USC running back Marcus Allen. Yeah, well, I never saw a defensive back who could catch Rice from behind until he tore up his knee, and Allen's a lock for the Hall of Fame.
O.J. Simpson might have been the fastest back to play the game. Go ahead and make a case for Bo Jackson. Maybe Herschel Walker, too. But Simpson ran a leg on Southern Cal's 440-yard relay team, one that set a world record, and if he were in this year's draft he'd be the fastest running back by far; faster than Big-10 sprint champion Michael Bennett. Faster than LaDainian Tomlinson. Faster than Deuce McAllister. Any idea what Simpson ran for a 40? I do. Try 4.5. If you don't believe him ask Simpson or any of his track coaches. Heck as the officials from his time at USC.
"I must've missed something here," said Adams. "I spent some time this spring with an Olympic sprinter, and we sat in a stadium together, watching guys work out and talking about how the 40-yard dash times were way overdone." The sprinter was Dennis Mitchell. Yeah, THAT Dennis Mitchell. He and Adams were together at the University of Florida, and when they heard times of some of the guys they watched Mitchell said nothing. He just shook his head. "He was a little shocked," said Adams. "Being a great sprinter, he'd never seen so many people running 4.1s and 4.2s. I've talked to (track coach) Brooks Johnson and others who say, 'You football people are way ahead of us.' Of course, they're facetious."
If Adams had his way, he'd rely more on times for shorter distances -- especially for offensive and defensive linemen. Make them stop running 40s and time them for 10s, maybe 20s. That's all they usually cover, anyway. "I could see it," said Cleveland's vice president in charge of football operations, Dwight Clark. "But for running backs, wide receivers and defensive backs, I'd like to see the 40 stay." The Browns don't rely on others' times. They clock prospects themselves, and if they don't, they don't have a record of them. The Browns never timed anyone at 4.2. They never timed anyone at 4.3, either, though they had the University of Arizona's Trung Canidate at 4.32 last year. I wasn't at that workout, either, but I know something was wrong.
And here's why. The fastest starter I ever saw was sprinter Ben Johnson, and at the 1988 Seoul Olympics track and field's fastest starter ran the 100 meters in a blistering 9.79 seconds, a time that later was disallowed after Johnson tested positive for steroids. Know how fast he covered the first 40? It was 4.69 seconds. Forty meters is approximately 44 yards, which means Johnson ran the first 40 in 4.26. So, now, let's see if I have this straight: The chemically enhanced Johnson, the fastest starter in track history, ran the fastest 100 in history... only it was one-tenth of a second slower than Laveranues Coles a year ago and three one-hundreths of a second ahead of Sanders' NFL combine record.
- A yard is .9144, so actually 4.29, and probably worse since he is still accelerating. This just further makes your point. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:08, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Quite simple. The clock starts, and Ben Johnson has to react to it. Reaction time is about 0.15. In short, the clock is already moving before he even notices the gun has gone.
American football 40s. The clock only starts when he's actually started running. There is no reaction time.
So whatever 40 Ben Johnson did in that race, take off about 0.15-0.2 for reaction time, to translate it to a NFL time.
If Ben Johnsons first 40, out of the blocks in the Olympics was 4.26, then that would amount to about a 4:06
in the NFL
Fastest times ==
The bit about Darrell Green was not satisfactory It stated as fact that he did the fastest ever 40, at 4:10. With the only source being some team mate who says he saw it happen!
You have to remember that even if it happened, it was hand timed. Hand timing has a margin of error of at least 0.2-0.3. He could have quite easily just done a 4:30 in truth.
You can't use a combination of an urban myth, and unreliable timing, to state that is the fastest 40 ever. As firstly, the timing may have been so off that it was not that fast. And secondly, it wasn't even an official pro day/combine run. So you have to accept that players tend to just hype up their speed for drafting purposes.
Every "fast" player has some miraculous time they have done in private. Only to find that their combine/pro day time is 0.2 slower.
I suggest, taking into account that this is a format that has to work on real facts, that any "fastest time" sticks to official, electronically timed 40s, that happened at combine and pro days.
Deion Sanders has the fastest 40 of all time. As it was officially timed, and someone actually saw him do it! Other players like Chris Johnson and Randy Moss have fast times. As do many. But all of this "Did 4:10, unofficially". It's not fact.
By all means state that people like Bo Sanders, are "thought" to have done "unofficial hand timed" 4:10s, but let's keep a nice dividing line between official times and fantasy ones.
- If you bothered to read it properly before you deleted it, it says "one of" the fastest times ever and it was used as an example how timing methods can change a runner's time, not as a statement that his was the fastest time ever.--Quartet 18:14, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
I did read it correctly. That wasn't my issue. My issue was that "Darryl Green, who ran one of the fastest 40 times ever" is a statement of fact.
The only source was second hand opinion that he ran that time from the person that was holding the stop watch. Stop watch timing isn't even accepted by the NFL as an offical, reliable time.
The statement iis implying that Darryl Green ran one of the fastest 40s ever. He didn't. As it's not factually documented.
I understand that it went on to say about timing differences, but that wasn't my point. Encyclopedic articles should deal in fact. If you make a factual statement, it should be backed up by factual sources. If your sources are speculative, write the sentence as "alledged" or "rumoured to.
Also, please don't put messages like that on my page, with threats of blocks, for nothing more than a well meaning edit. It's not helpful, and breaks rules.
All edits should be discussed on this page. And in directly approaching the editor who made the edit, and warning them, you yourself are breaking wikipedia rules. As it can be deemed as intimidation. Policing is not a role that falls in the remit of a wikipedia editor.
As stated in reply, on your own page, let's discuss it on here, where we can find a consensus.
Again, I think we are probably making the same point, and there is no dispute. My only problem was that it was stated as fact.
- Calm down. I've done nothing out of the ordinary. I warned you for removing an entire section of sourced content based on your own point of view regarding Darrell Green's time. And this is not the first warning you've received on Wikipedia which is why the warning was more strongly worded. Eventually the hope is that with repeated warnings, you'll learn that while what your doing is with good intentions, your edits are becoming disruptive.
- By the way, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth — that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Please review WP:VERIFY. The sourced used says Darrell Green is "One of the fastest men ever to play the game, he was once timed — unofficially — in the 40 in a blazing 4.09 seconds." Wether or not you believe this to be true, or that you believe it was second-hand information or it was timed was using a stop watch, or even timed by a monkey isn't relevant - it's been cited using a reliable source that has been published. Your opinion vs. WP:RS - you lose every time. If you want to change the wording, that's a different story, but you blanked an entire section that contained 3 reliable sources. Per WP:PRESERVE Do not remove information just because it is poorly presented. Fix problems if you can, flag them if you can't. Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia guidelines and policies before repeating these mistakes in the future. --Quartet 18:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
By this theory, Justin Gatlin has actually run a 4:10 forty yard dash then. So the 4:40 used as his quickest time should be changed. He was basically just as fast as Green over an NFL 40, according to both sources used.
Further distinguishment needed between unofficial fastest times and official, electronically timed fastest 40s, registered with the league.
As an example, the difference between Bo Jackson's unofficial 40 time, and the one he officially registered with the league is about 0.20. I think it was claimed he ran 4:08 in team practice. His registered time is actually 4:28.
Tedd Ginn's unofficial college time was 4:06. His combine was about 4:33.
As far as I'm aware, the fastest official, verified electronically timed 40 is Deion Sanders at 4:21.
In regards to any athlete, it's Maurice Greene. For his 60 metre world record. Even including his reaction time, he covered the first 40 in 4:17. The only person to ever officially run under 4:20 over 40 yards. If you subtract his reaction time it was actually 3:93. Of course, he used blocks, so that is probably a bit artificially low compared to NFL timing.
Maybe a few sentences needed on what the officially timed sort of standard actually is. As in, 4:20-4:25.
This needs a citation, right?
"This reflects the difference that timing methods can cause to a runner's time."
I disagree with this and think it should either be cut or have a citation.
I have a source <a href="http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/">that says</a> the discrepancy between the 100 times and the 40 times is that the 100 is determined more by peak speed than the 40 is, where the 40 is almost pure acceleration. This sentence in the article implies that someone who runs a faster 100 would clearly run a faster 40, which goes against what the other article says.
Need to clarify this in the article.
NFL 40 times - the clock starts when the player moves. The runner starts the clock
Athletics 40 times - the clock starts when the gun goes. The runner has to react to the gun. So in essence, the clock is already running when the player starts.
Gatlin only has a 4.44 forty time, as it's a time taken from the first 40 of one of his 100 metre runs. A run where he was reacting to the gun.
Reaction time to a gun, by a sprinter, is something like 0.3 seconds. Meaning 0.3 is already on the clock when they hear the gun go off. Then add in another 0.1 second for their brain to process it, and move.
Any 40 time a sprinter does, in a race, you can probably take off 0.4 just for the reaction time. They're probably running closer to 4.1 forties in reality. Which ties in with their dominance over nfl players over the full 100 as well.
Edit request on 19 December 2011
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
- According to NFL.com, which is where the results come from, Wallace ran a 4.33. Eagles 24/7 (C) 03:57, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Edit request on 7 January 2012
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
Add this to 40 Yard Dash Table:
2 Reliable Sources for Mike Wallace 4.28 40 Yard Dash Time: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=68061&draftyear=2009&genpos=WR http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Mike&l=Wallace&i=8384 Hoopsnerd (talk) 23:42, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
- The second link is not a reliable source and NFL.com says otherwise. Eagles 24/7 (C) 23:45, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Michael Jordan ran a 4.3
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/archive/831128/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 05:46, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Is www.nflcombineresults.com reliable?
I was doing some Google searches to confirm/verify the Wikipedia article and found http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedata.php Only eight of the times match. I was starting to edit the Wikipedia article to match this web site until I hit Trindon Holliday which we have as 4.29 and this web site has at a record 4.21 seconds.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1543670-how-are-40-yard-dash-times-recorded says "There's even some dispute as to the fastest time since 1999. The NFL recognizes Johnson's 4.24 seconds, but as Rang wrote, NFLDraftScout.com calls Trindon Holliday's time of 4.21 seconds in 2010 the top mark (the NFL adjusted Holliday's time all the way down to 4.34 seconds)."
The nflcombineresults.com web site weighs in with No Such Thing As An Official 40 Yard Dash Time
I may need to revert some of my edits based on the nflcombineresults table but wanted to see if there's consensus on what times we should use given that it seem difficult (impossible) to verify the "official" NFL times. At http://www.nfl.com/40 the NFL claims "The 40-yard dash is the premier NFL Scouting Combine drill." - They sure make the data for this "premier" metric hard to track down.
Wikipedia 40 Yard NFL Name Height (in) Weight (lbs) POS Year 4.29 4.21 Trindon Holliday 65 166 WR 2010 4.28 4.22 4.28 Jacoby Ford 69 186 WR 2010 4.24 4.24 4.24 Chris Johnson 71 197 RB 2008 4.24 Rondel Menendez 69 178 WR 1999 4.28 4.25 4.28 Demarcus Van Dyke 73 176 CB 2011 4.30 4.25 4.30 Darrius Heyward-Bey 74 210 WR 2009 4.28 4.26 Jerome Mathis 71 181 WR 2005 4.27 C.J. Spiller 71 196 RB 2010 4.27 4.27 Stanford Routt 74 193 CB 2005 4.27 4.27 Marquise Goodwin 69 170 WR 2013 4.28 Mike Wallace 73 199 WR 2009 4.28 4.28 Champ Bailey 73 184 CB 1999 4.28 N/A Carl Vogel 72 195 SF 2013 4.29 Johnny Knox 73 185 WR 2009 4.29 4.29 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 74 184 CB 2008 4.29 4.29 Fabian Washington 71 188 CB 2005 4.29 Jay Hinton 71 200 RB 1999 4.30 Mike Thomas 68 195 WR 2009 4.30 4.30 4.30 Yamon Figurs 71 174 WR 2007 4.30 4.30 Darrent Williams 69 176 CB 2005 4.29 4.33 Josh Robinson 0 199 CB 2012 4.30 4.34 4.30 Tye Hill 70 185 CB 2006 4.28 4.50 Fred Russell 67 195 RB 2004
Tavon Austin shouldn't be on the list?
According to his Combine profile, at least - it says he ran a 4.34: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Tavon-Austin?id=2539336 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:21, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Espn's 30 for 30 "Bo Knows" even mentioned Bo's record time. Other than a single report by a single writer which was double sourced by the way, I missed all the supposed scrutiny even tried to search myself. Seems an attempt to try to downplay as if times prior to 1999 are not legit. OK so all Olympic records prior to digital stopwatches should also be given same scrutiny.Like I said poorly sourced and seems to discredit people like Bo Jackson who according to multiple sources including USA Today's cover that week set the long standing record. --0pen$0urce (talk) 09:03, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Not official, wrong data
This Page says Tavon Austin's official 40 yard dash was 4.25. In fact, his adjusted official by NFL was 4.34. I bet a lot of the data is very inaccurate. You can't claim unofficial data "official" I don't know why this page is protected and won't let people to edit the obvious error. Just brings down the credibility of wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 18:01, 17 July 2014 (UTC)