Talk:78th Infantry Division (United Kingdom)

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corrected order of battle[edit]

I have just corrected the order of battle on this page - the 2 Armoured Brigade appears to have served in the east and in france but not with the 78th Div. also began to flesh out the campaign overview - but ran out of time - I'll come back and expand plus link and source. also removed territorial army references as the regiments in question became territorial following the war. DavidP 14:52, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

152nd or 159th Field Ambulance[edit]

I have just corrected the Order of Battle by changing the 152nd Field Ambulance to 159th Field Ambulance. My father was in 159th and I have been able to view the Official Regimental War Diary which confirms their presence in the Eastern landings at Algiers in Operation Torch as part of 78th Division. I am unsure if this is a transcription error from the book referenced or whether the error is present in the book also. The 152nd Field Ambulance were part of the 51st (Highland) Division, and were in the Western Desert with the 8th Army. (82.43.158.227 (talk) 22:33, 23 September 2015 (UTC))[reply]

Sorry, chap, but not good enough. We need to be able to verify all facts. You need to cite this change to a reliable source that is accessable. Hamish59 (talk) 22:44, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A photocopy of pp 274,275 of Ford's book here says 152nd. Other details agree with Joslen pp 101, 225, 248, 284, 373. [Note that Joslen does not enumerate the Field Ambulances.] So not a transcription (from Ford's book) problem. Entirely possible that Ford made a mistake, but absence any contrary proof, we will have to go with this for now. Hamish59 (talk) 23:01, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hamish, you beat me to it! I do not have access to Ford's book, however Google Books does include mention of the unit elsewhere other than the OOB you provided a link to: see here.

I was able to find some sources that notes the unit was part of the 51st, although the book previews only show OOB for 1940: see here and here, among others.

It would seem possible that the 152nd was transferred to the 78th at some point. It is also possible, based on the anon's comments, that the 159th was also part of the division. The issue would then be of dates of when they joined and left, which we do not have. So, for the time being I have removed the RAMC stuff and placed it below:

11th Field Ambulance, Royal Army Medical Corps^[1]
152nd Field Ambulance, Royal Army Medical Corps^[1]
217th Field Ambulance, Royal Army Medical Corps^[1]
47th Field Hygiene Section, Royal Army Medical Corps^[1]

Regards, EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 23:38, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

From what Google Books preview is showing me, the following source contains detailed orders of battles - included RAMC units - for the divisions that fought at Cassino. The preview does not provide info for the 78th, however it does appear to be a source for possible investigation.

While it is anecdotal, these 78th Div chaps seem quite happy with Ford's OOB (although that does not mean it is not complete).

This source (RS?) suggests the 159th was more of a Corps unit, handling casualties for the entire Eastern Task Force during Torch.

This obituary states that one A.A. Guild was a company commander with the unit, and served with the 78th and then the 4th Division. Was the unit temporarily with the 78th until the 4th Division arrived?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 00:02, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

EnigmaMcmxc, I fully agree with your decision to move the Field Ambulances part out of the main article. I do not have Ford's book either. It may have more information on the Field Ambulances (other than the snippet you found) that would answer the question; or not – I suspect that Field Ambulances are not accorded much prominence.

this, this and this suggest that 152nd was part of 51st HD in the early days of WWII (France 1940), but not by El Alamein - this, Page 44 looks like the best source on 152 and the HD. Hamish59 (talk) 08:35, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Verification request[edit]

"The 78th Battleaxe Infantry Division was widely considered as one of the best, if not the best, mountain division of the British Eighth Army."

As far as I am aware, only the 52nd Lowland was considered a mountain division. Do we have a source for the above statement about the 78th?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 17:24, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

^ ^a ^b ^c ^d Ford 2003, pp. 274–275.

[FOOTNOTEFord2003274–275-1] Ford 2003, pp. 274–275.

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