Talk:A. A. Griffith Medal and Prize

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Notability[edit]

This is just one of 50+ prizes awarded by the IOMMM. The fact that many recipients are notable does not confirm that the medal itself is a notable award. Is there any coverage of it in independent sources? Also, see WP:OR – Wikipedia should be based on published sources, not private information. – Fayenatic London 12:26, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

As for the number of 55 medals and awards: this in no way suggests that any given award isn't notable. If you look at the descriptions of the medals, you will find that they are all seperate awards for (1) different fields of research (such as plastics, rubber, steel, ceramics, polymers, surface engineering, materials chemistry, biomedical materials, et cetera), (2) papers about different kinds of materials, (3) different age groups, (4) student projects, (5) educational awards ... on and on it goes. So it seems to me that you cannot conclude that a medal is not notable simply because there are 55 medals. It's not like 'first prize, second prize, third prize, all the way down to 55. Now it would make a difference if there is only one single field of research. But these are all seperate medals awarded for a special achievement in a single special field of materials science. Actually, looking at all the different subjects, it surprizes me there aren't over 100 medals and awards. As to the the list of winners, though it was not published by IOM3 itself, it was sent by IOM3 to dr. Andrews, and he sent it to me. I accept that in this way it becomes second-hand information, even if the information really does come from IOM3 (which you may safely believe it does). If the list can only be used when IOM3 has published it somewere, I'm afraid the list will have to go. But the article about the medal and its history, is another matter. Removing that would only be justified after it has been established that it is not notable. I am waiting for information of IOM3 by e-mail about its notability. - --Watch-Wiki Talk 22:38, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

A further thought[edit]

The notability of the award should not be judged by the plethora of medals and awards IOM3 now has. Remember that IOM3 did not exist when the Griffith Medal was awarded to many of the people listed. IOM3 was created in 2002 by an amalgamation of the Institution of Mining and Metallurgy and the Institute of Materials. It has a Royal Charter and its Patron is the Queen (about). The Institution of Mining and Metallurgy was itself an amalgamation of two earlier Institutions. Thus three distinct scientific and engineering disciplines have been brought together ... which explains why there is such a plethora of prizes. Furthermore, very few of these awards would have existed before the amalgamation, so to argue that it is now one of many, is a fallacious anachronism. You have to judge the notability of the Griffith Medal and Prize on the notability it had when it was established. So in fact, the notability of the A. A. Griffith Medal and Prize should be decided on the notabilaty it had until 2002. And as for the period after 2002, please remember that IOM3 did not establish this prize, it took it over from a previous organization. See also the history of the IOM3 here. - Watch-Wiki Talk 10:32, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Some fair points. One test is whether the surviving recipients bother to mention this medal in their own biography pages. I checked six, and only one of them mentions it: Tony Kinloch, while John Knott, Edgar Andrews, Anthony Kelly, Peter Hirsch and Michael Ashby do not. In any case, the important test is whether multiple independent sources mention it; please see the general notability guide.
As for the history: who were the awarding bodies between 1977 and 2002? The IOM3 history does not give any hints, e.g. The Institute of Materials was formed from narrower bodies in 1993. – Fayenatic London 19:50, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the vote of confidence and the link to the notability guide;-) The Materials Science Club existed until 1985, see the chronology of IOM3's history here. So I guess we have to look at the period between 1985 and 2002. I guess that after 1985 the award was simply taken over by the organizations it merged with. So in 1985 it probably was the Institute of Metals, which changed its name in 1992 to The Institute of Materials. In 1993 the latter changed its name to Institute of Materials, and in 1993 it took over the Plastics and Rubber Institute, the Institute of Ceramics, British Composites Society and the Institute of Metals. In 2002 the Institute of Materials merged with several others into IOM3. So it follows that if you want to search for the award with Google, you would have to use the names of Institute of Metals and Institute of Materials. Anyway, I'll also check on a the winners of the medal and see if I can find something more about it. I already found it mentioned on this page about Derek Hull (last paragraph). Edgar Andrews does mention it on his linkedin page. The problem with 'independent sources' here is that these scientists often work for organizations, so it won't be easy to find really independent sources. Many of them do mention it on their own site, such as R. O. Ritchie. - Watch-Wiki Talk 20:41, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Debrett's People of Today[edit]

I also found the Griffith Medal several times on Debrett's People of Today's website. I searched only a few people yet, and found the medal mentioned on their entries about Edgar Andrews, Anthony Kinloch and William Bonfield. Since they are independant, I'm sure it wouldn't be mentioned there if it wasn't notable. I'll search for the other winners on Debrett's and see if I can find some more. - Watch-Wiki Talk 17:31, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

That helps; please cite it. – Fayenatic London 20:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
You want their Debrett page linked to their names? By the way, I contacted Debrett's after a search for a few more names, and I got a reply from them about Colin (John) Humphreys, saying that the medal wasn't mentioned on his page because they don't always update the pages in view of the many pages they have (over 20,000). Sometimes the carreer data stops at a given date, before the date the medal was awarded. - Watch-Wiki Talk 23:18, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Yes please; that's a tertiary source, and the page has mainly primary sources at the moment. – Fayenatic London 09:05, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

The list of winners was sent to me by prof. dr. Edgar Andrews after a discussion on his talkpage about the notability of the A.A. Griffith Medal and Prize. I wanted to clear the matter up, and the list shows hoe many really distinguished people won it. I contacted Edgar and he phoned the IMMM asking for clarification about the year he got the prize. That is all he asked but on top of that they also sent him the complete list of all the past winners. It is that list that has been added in the article.

See also item 7 on the talkpage of Matty--Watch-Wiki Talk 16:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

External links[edit]

I have included several external links, only because some of the people mentioned do not have a biography on Wikipedia. I thought it might be helpful to have external links to their biographies and or cv. - Watch-Wiki Talk 22:24, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

External links should not be included as part of inline text. Please move them into footnotes, e.g. see the entry for Tony Kinloch. – Fayenatic London 19:31, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
I moved them; hope it meets several more of wiki's standards. Watch-Wiki Talk 21:06, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Other awards[edit]

Perhaps someone will take it upon him- or herself to create articles for the other awards of the IOM3. That would be the correct thing to do. - Watch-Wiki Talk 21:32, 1 June 2013 (UTC)