Talk:A Good Man Goes to War

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Good article A Good Man Goes to War has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
May 30, 2012 Good article nominee Listed
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Doctor Who (Rated GA-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Doctor Who, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Doctor Who and its spin-offs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this notice, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
 GA  This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject BBC (Rated GA-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject BBC, an attempt to better organise information in articles related to the BBC. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can join us as a member. You can also visit the BBC Portal. WikiProject icon
 GA  This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Television / Episode coverage (Rated GA-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Television, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of television on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 GA  This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the episode coverage task force.
 

Spelling[edit]

I have found a citation to the Radio Times website which spells Eye-patch's name as Madam. If someone can find an actual verifiable source which says something different, then they are more than welcome to add it to the article along with a snarky remark – but so far, the only attempt has linked to a web-page which doesn't seem to contain the words Madam, Madame or Kovarian at all. So I don't know what the point was. ╟─TreasuryTagpikuach nefesh─╢ 09:13, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

There's something weird about the reference given by SoWhy, it shows up temporarily when loading the page and disappears when loaded. But it definitely says "Madame Kovarian ——— Frances Barber" in the credits section. Here's a screenshot, or you can view the page source and you'll see it as well, something with the iPlayer that hides, probably only visible for UK IP addresses. Xeworlebi (talk) 10:19, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
In my browser, it shows what Xeworlebi says at the bottom, so it's definitely there. Possibly NoScript blocked the hiding script. I didn't mean to be "snarky" in my edit summary, so sorry if it sounded like that. I'm not sure as to why you insist on "Madam" though, the very Radio Times source you cite spells it "Madame" in their plot summary( "[...] and sinister Madame Kovarian (Frances Barber in an eye-patch) has [...]"), so there is no reason to assume that the spelling in the cast list is correct and in the summary incorrect. A source that contradicts itself is imho not reliable. Regards SoWhy 11:45, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
I've a concern about this link ... www.bbc.com? It displays with a certificate error in my browser. Edgepedia (talk) 12:46, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
It's a https link rediecting to bbc.co.uk. I fixed it. Edokter (talk) — 13:11, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Problem is that now the link has updated to be included in the Doctor Who site, it no longer contains a cast list. It would also be nice to have a source for surprise returning characters Henry and Toby Avery, and red herring of the century (IMO) Jenny, all included in the screenshot taken above but not RT's listing. U-Mos (talk) 17:23, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
The Guardian's review of TAP uses "Madame" as well. Regards SoWhy 17:28, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Sidebar[edit]

Why does it say "Let's Kill Hitler" in the 'followed by' section of the sidebar for this ep. As far as I know, no episode titles have been confirmed except "The God Complex" for the second half of the season. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.210.120.48 (talk) 10:32, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Very good point, and it's now been removed! ╟─TreasuryTagLord Speaker─╢ 11:33, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Actually, that title was given in a TV magazine - I forget which - but fandom consensus is that it's a placeholder only in the review copies, so it'd be a bad idea to use it anyway. 86.176.139.220 (talk) 20:27, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
And of course we always bow to fandom consensus here. ╟─TreasuryTagduumvirate─╢ 20:29, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Now that "A Good Man Goes to War" has been broadcast, it ended with "The Doctor will return in "Let's Kill Hitler" in Autumn 2011". So the title is official. Aridd (talk) 18:34, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Edotkers revert of me but why keep it as River?[edit]

yes per rules we should keep it the same as the credits, but River Song is Melody how do we deal with this in the future?--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 18:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

We follow the rules and keep it to however she's credited. This seems obvious? ╟─TreasuryTagpikuach nefesh─╢ 18:54, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
But she's really Melody now, I suppose later on if the BBC change it we can but for now we'll leave it be thanks TT--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 18:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
I guess we could say that she goes by the name she's known by for most of her appearances (so Donna Noble isn't mentioned as 'Donna Temple') if that makes it any better :) ╟─TreasuryTagsheriff─╢ 19:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
That's "Donna Noble-Temple," thank you much ;-) --Jaiotu (talk) 04:36, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I suppose that's a good idea. thanks :)--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 19:04, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Stormcage[edit]

The synopsis says we learn why River was in Stormcage. I don't think we did. 81.131.162.131 (talk) 19:49, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Quite so. I've removed it. ╟─TreasuryTagsundries─╢ 20:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Lucas and Colonel Manton[edit]

These two were in RT's credit list, but not the end credits. Did they play significant roles and were left off the credit list or did RT credit people who only appeared as background in the final episode? U-Mos (talk) 20:06, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Apologies all, both are credited in the episode. I should have been more careful. U-Mos (talk) 22:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

The Prophesy[edit]

Demons run when a good man goes to war.
Night will fall and drown the sun when a good man goes to war.
Friendship dies and true love lies,
Night will fall and the dark will rise,
When a good man goes to war

River SongThe ep and (currently) the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/

There's more isn't there? FallingBullets (talk) 21:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

No. ╟─TreasuryTagsundries─╢ 21:32, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
There is another couple of lines about the battle being won but the child lost, but how exactly is this relevant to the article? U-Mos (talk) 22:48, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Well it implies the source of the title and the location? FallingBullets (talk) 07:46, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Plus there's also a reference in the conversation between The Doctor and the Eyepatch Woman, where she remarks that good men have rules, and the Doctor responds that good men don't need rules and that she doesn't really want to find out why he DOES have all these rules. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chartered Wombat (talkcontribs) 07:51, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

The Doctor's cot[edit]

"And there's a piece of cloth inside the cot, and that says my name. But on the actual cot, I think it's his name. It's the Doctor's cot, but is it only the Doctor's cot? Uh, yes, that's all I can say. How many babies have been in that cot basically." — Alex Kingston, Doctor Who Confidential for this episode ("The Born Identity"), ~40:00 to 40:30.

That probably doesn't belong in this article, but maybe it belongs in the series 6 article or on TARDIS Wiki? Thoughts? NW (Talk) 04:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Seeing as how uncomfortable he was discussing it with Amy, what do you think - was it Susan's or Susan's mother's cot as well? Don't worry, I'm not going to try to add that to the article. Chartered Wombat (talk) 06:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Cutting off at the pass - any need for an image?[edit]

To start a discussion before people go adding screenshots, I can't really think of anything that likely needs a screenshot for this episode. At least, without a more significant discussion from reception or development. --MASEM (t) 05:43, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I would have thought an image of the embroidery showing River's name. That's pretty much the point of this ep (and much of this season), isn't it? Chartered Wombat (talk) 12:39, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
And could you explain how that would meet our criteria for using copyrighted content? ╟─TreasuryTagAfrica, Asia and the UN─╢ 12:47, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Could you explain how it wouldn't? Chartered Wombat (talk) 12:51, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Very easily described by text. "A satin-like fabric cut into a star star, embroidered with the word "RIVER"". It's a key plot moment but visually not critical to understanding the article so would fail NFCC#1 and NFCC#8. --MASEM (t) 13:00, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Masem - thank you for actually taking the time to explain, rather than Treasury Tag's curt response. Chartered Wombat (talk) 13:03, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
I can't help wondering why you've provided a link to a page instructing people not to bite newbies when you're so obviously not a newbie... ╟─TreasuryTagUK EYES ONLY─╢ 11:17, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Were the Ood in this episode?[edit]

If you look at the very end of the closing credits, credits for the creators of the alien species appearing in this ep are listed (Cybermen, Silurians, Sontarans), and Rusell T Davies is specifically credited for the creation of the Ood and Judoon. I definitely saw Judoon in the show (in the assault on Demon's Run), but where were the Ood? Chartered Wombat (talk) 07:09, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

  • Very good catch. Maybe they're in a deleted scene? Or is it possible there were plans to show a flashback of Nephew from The Doctor's Wife? 68.146.78.43 (talk) 13:26, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Title[edit]

The actual title of the broadcast episode was "Demon's Run", was it not? --Panzer71 (talk) 07:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Duh, I have just answered my own question, sorry. --Panzer71 (talk) 07:39, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Demon's Run or Demons Run[edit]

You can find both in the article. Which is the correct spelling ? Hektor (talk) 12:42, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

The onscreen caption for the asteroid is Demon's Run. However, the poem is "Demons run when a good man goes to war." DonQuixote (talk) 12:45, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
The base is called "Demon's Run" in the show's subtitle. In the context of River's poem/warning, it's "demons run" but not a proper noun. --MASEM (t) 12:46, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Error in poem[edit]

At no point in the episode does River Song recite the poem. The poem is read by the so-called Eye-Patch Lady. Also, should the article discuss the origin of the poem? I thought it was original to the episode, but I just found someone quoting the poem in a forum posting (ironically about the IDW Publishing Doctor Who comic) from a year ago. 68.146.78.43 (talk) 13:24, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

River Song indeed does recite the poem, as a voive-over during the beginning and the end of the epiosde. Edokter (talk) — 13:30, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Timecode 38m33s Chartered Wombat (talk) 10:54, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Music[edit]

An interesting point has come up in continuity, which I reverted but am now not so sure. The suggestion is that at this point: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011rf7y/Doctor_Who_Series_6_A_Good_Man_Goes_to_War/?t=34m29s the Doctor's theme from RTD's era (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsVRmTV66Xc&t=3m22s) is used. There are certainly similarities, but are they enough to assert it is the same music? If it is, it would be notable as (so far) the only time music from RTD's era has been used since Matt Smith took over as the Doctor. U-Mos (talk) 16:03, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I think it undoubtedly was The Doctor's Theme, having noticed this at the time. I think that our potential WP:UNDUE and WP:NOR problems would be solved in one fell swoop if we could find a reliable source on this point. I'll have a look now. ╟─TreasuryTagprorogation─╢ 16:23, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Music cues - particularly if they are more instrumental and lyric-less - are nearly always OR. If the director or music or sound producer comes out and says this, or a reviewer comments on the tones of the past Doctor theme, then we are set. But I agree with the removal until we have a source. --MASEM (t) 20:09, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
It would seem (at least according to the soundtrack album's wiki pages) that this is not the first time subtle music cues from series 4 backwards have been used. So I'm not thinking it's notable any more. U-Mos (talk) 20:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Vastra and Jenny reaction[edit]

Up to now all we had were fan forums to go on regarding the characters' popularity and calls for a spin-off; not good enough sourcing for Wikipedia. But now SFX Magazine's website has acknowledged the popularity and itself has called for a spinoff, so now there's a reputable third-party source, I've added this to the "Reception and reaction" section. As there's still wiggle room regarding the exact nature of their relationship, I left that wording vague. 68.146.78.43 (talk) 12:27, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Episode Sped Up?[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Just a question. Did it seem to anyone else like some parts of the episode were sped up, like the show was on a bit of a fast forward? I can't seem to find any information elsewhere, but both me and my friend who were watching the episode together both agreed it seemed that way. I watched on BBC America on June 11th, if that matters. 71.104.188.180 (talk) 19:23, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

There's usually some sort of speed adjustment when converting between British and American broadcast standards. As this is a show filmed at 25FPS being converted to 30FPS for broadcast on BBC America, I would assume it would play out quicker than intended. ~~ Peteb16 (talk) 21:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
A 20% speed-up is too much. Rather it is probably shown in the US at 24fps with 3:2 pull-down, which is actually 4% slower. Edokter (talk) — 20:41, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay, another theory then; 71.104.188.180 said, "some parts", Maybe some parts were 24fps and others were 30. No doubt in a somewhat bizarre effort to fit the extra 5 minutes of this episode into the same time slot without deleting any scenes. Just a theory of course. ~~ Peteb16 (talk) 21:08, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

This isn't a chat-room folks. ╟─TreasuryTaginternational waters─╢ 21:24, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Finding out information about the filming of a piece of fiction can help with adding important details to an article. Probably not in this instance, but the IP wouldn't have known that. Lighten up. i kan reed (talk) 20:37, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
No, they couldn't. But the subsequent discussion is just chit-chat. ╟─TreasuryTagco-prince─╢ 21:38, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


Demon's Run?[edit]

Is it Demon's Run (possessive or Demons run (statement)? Gilderien (talk) 20:56, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Already answered a couple of threads up the page. ╟─TreasuryTagperson of reasonable firmness─╢ 07:17, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Cybermen[edit]

The Cybermen were the primary universe Cybermen (of the old Who series) and not the through-the-void cross over Cybermen (of the new Who series), right? 65.94.47.63 (talk) 10:49, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Xbox 360 Elite[edit]

Why does "Xbox 360 Elite" refer to this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.251.98.179 (talk) 19:55, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Because someone vandalised it. I've reverted to correct version. DonQuixote (talk) 19:57, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Series 6[edit]

Please note that the BBC refers to this series as Series 6 - it's not just random thick Wikipedians. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Demons Run (poem/proverb)[edit]

Okay, first of all it's DEMONS Run, not Demon's Run. The demons are running. Not the demons have a run. Okay, now that that is sorted, I actually want to talk about the poem.

Demons run when a good man goes to war. Night will fall and drown the sun, when a good man goes to war. Friendship dies and true love lies, Night will fall and the dark will rise, when a good man goes to war. Demons run, and count the cost, The battle is won, but the child is lost,

"Wakey, wakey..."

"Rory? RORY!"

Okay, BEST SCENE EVER.

But you need to watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi0hlYOtdSo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.222.155.195 (talk) 11:57, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Onscreen caption at the start of the episode clearly undeniably shows "Demon's Run". --MASEM (t) 12:38, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


There's no reason any of this inane and trivial nonsense should be in the actual article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.177.238.134 (talk) 02:46, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:A Good Man Goes to War/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Gen. Quon (talk · contribs) 04:48, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

  • Lede: "and serving as a mid-series finale" -> either "and served as a mid-series finale" or "serving as a mid-series finale"
  • Prequel: "he hears a lot of rumours" Maybe its just me, but I don't like "a lot", maybe "many"
  • Plot: "who has been watching over Amy during her pregnancy and taken her child" I would add 'has' before 'taken'
  • Production: Was the false ending ever reported or elaborated on?
    • Not in anything I can find. The only slight elaboration besides "there was a false ending" was in Confidential where Kingston said that what River said in it was not true. Glimmer721 talk 00:56, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Filming and Effects: "These various sets..." -> "The various sets..."
  • Reception: "positive to mixed reviews" I would do it the other way "mixed to positive reviews". Just a personal preference, no biggie
  • References: Space needed between the "p." and the page number in Ref. 2 and 10
    • I need to remember that. Done. Glimmer721 talk 00:56, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
  • References: Link The Telegraph and The Guardian

Those are the only issues I could find. On hold for seven days.--Gen. Quon (talk) 00:37, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I believe I have fixed everything. Thanks for reviewing! (I'll nominate "The Walk" and "Oubliette" soon, though I don't think your contributions were minor enough so that you could review it) Glimmer721 talk 00:56, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Awesome everything looks good. I pass. As for The X-Files episodes, yeah, I think I might've been too involved. Maybe ask Grapple? He's a good reviewer.--Gen. Quon (talk) 03:35, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm fine with just waiting until a reviewer comes along. Grapple is a little busy with "Squeeze". Glimmer721 talk 20:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Two stories or two parter[edit]

I don't understand why Good Man Goes to War / Let's Kill Hitler are listed as a two-part story. They may have been announced that way, but on screen they're clearly two separate stories, with several months in between.

Also Tom Splisbury, the editor of Dr Who magazine, has said they're not a two parter:

http://twitter.com/TomSpilsbury/status/248470190793293824

Could they be split into two stories? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.103.226 (talk) 16:18, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Please try to keep this discussion at one location. DonQuixote (talk) 16:44, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

End (?) of Dorium Maldovar[edit]

The article currently reads, "Several Silurians and Dorium are killed immediately, while Strax and Bucket are fatally wounded in the battle." Would it not be more accurate to note that we merely hear the the beheading of Dorium off-screen, as he is not really killed? Or would that simply be too clever? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.43.219 (talk) 03:42, 9 April 2013 (UTC) Okay, barring any objections, I will make the change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.67.20.241 (talk) 20:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I think it would be better suited in the continuity section (the fact that he comes back later) with a referene. Glimmer721 talk 15:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)