Talk:Ab urbe condita
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- 1 Untitled
- 2 AUC from Rome setlement to J.C.1 is AUC709
- 3 so what AUC year is it really
- 4 Years Before the founding of Rome
- 5 I suggest a move
- 6 Ancient grammatical fluke?
- 7 BC/AD vs. BCE/CE
- 8 Current year (AD 2011) is AUC 2763, not 2764
- 9 Year-numbering for all listed dates
- 10 What was Hadrianus celebrating?
- 11 748 AUC = 6 BC (real birthday of Jesus Christ on April 17)
- 12 Original research?
- 13 The dates are not constant!
- 14 Appropriate Dating Styles
- 15 What is ab urbe condita? What is anno urbis conditae?
Error in: "Livy (I, 60) gives almost the same, 240 years for that interval". Livy gives 244 years
Well, A.U.C. continued in common use despite Divus Julius - Livy, for instance, used it. The Roman calendar article, which I linked, is a different issue from the year-count, but it's relevant, I guess. --MichaelTinkler
Eutropius and other authors also used ab urbe condita in their works. True, naming the years of the consuls was much more common, it is inaccurate to say that auc was only a modern reckoning. Chris Weimer 07:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't 2006 be MMDCCLVIII to account for the fact that there was no year 0? That is, the calculation should be 2006 + 753 - 1, no? Iridius 02:19, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
- No. No year zero requires 2006 + 753 = 2759. The year before AD 1 is 1 BC and progresses backward to 753 BC. Invert this number sequence so that 1 is at 753 BC and 753 is at 1 BC. Then the years AD progress from 1 to 2006. The two number sequences are added by 753 + 2006. If there was a year zero between BC and AD, then the sequences would be 753 + 1 + 2006. Be that as it may, because the article gives two possible years for the founding of Rome, 753 BC and 745 BC, no modern conversion should be given, especially not in the section arguing that it was founded in 745 BC, so I removed it. — Joe Kress 06:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Why does it say after Christ (AD), in the dating? AD does not mean after Christ Njjones 19:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- It is, yet again, Latin. AD means Anno Domini, "In the year of (Our) Lord". Anyhow I think the more neutral BCE/CE (Common Era) should be used. -anonymous
- Agreed, BCE is more neutral. Unless anyone has any problems with it I'll change it 18.104.22.168 16:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
AUC from Rome setlement to J.C.1 is AUC709
- When used at last the AUC ofical time?
The auc have many misstakes. Like time calendar are not correct basis, (month and year days are wery strange).
- J.C. Reformered the calendar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 14:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
so what AUC year is it really
The "alternate calculation" section is very confusing. It might also describe more clearly how much the "normal" calculation predominated vs. any others in usage at different times. Foogus (talk) 21:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Years Before the founding of Rome
How would years before the founding of Rome under the AUC system be recorded as? For example, under the BC-AD system of tracking years, anything that occured before the birth of Christ (or then at least what Dionysius Exiguus believed to be his birth date (1 AD) at the time it was created) is recorded as BC, any thing after his birth as AD. Under the AUC system, how would events such as the Trojan War, the voyage of Aeneas following the war, and other events preceding the founding of Rome be recorded as? I think this is something that should be addressed in this article which, as of 6/4/09, nothing has been stated regarding this. Fuelsaver (Fuelsaver) 6:48 PM, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
I suggest a move
Ancient grammatical fluke?
- Latin just works that way. Literally it means 'from the founded city (onwards)'. It has to be in a past tense to refer to the right time. The gerundive refers to the future, so ab urbe condenda would imply 'after the city will be built'. I suppose the gerund would work, but adjectival phrases are much more common in Latin. It is a bit similar to summus mons meaning 'the top of the mountain' instead of just 'the highest mountain'. –Radulfr (talk) 22:40, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
BC/AD vs. BCE/CE
I do understand that the BC/AD distinction is necessary to make, but I feel it would be better to actually use (or at least indicate) the BCE/CE pair instead. I don't want to get into an edit war, so I'd rather just ask here if anyone objects to such changes before I go ahead with it.George Adam Horváth (talk) 14:10, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
- Although I have no preference, I note that the Manual of Style states "AD and BC are the traditional ways of referring to these eras. CE and BCE are becoming more common in academic and some religious writing. No preference is given to either style. ... Do not change from one style to another unless there is substantial reason for the change, and consensus for the change with other editors." What "substantial reason" can you give? — Joe Kress (talk) 06:31, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Current year (AD 2011) is AUC 2763, not 2764
Like the Calendar Anno Domini, the Calendar Ab Urbe Condita has no Year 0 in its traditional form. (I say "in its traditional form" because astronomical calendars do have a Year 0, and presumably this too would apply to Ab Urbe Condita as well as Anno Domini.) This places the same year in AUC 1 year behind what one would calculate simply by adding 753 to the year in AD. Correct conversion formula: AUC=AD+753-1-->AUC=AD+752. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 02:58, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
- Whether or not a year zero is placed before year one AUC will have no affect on any later year. It will only affect years before the AUC epoch, that is, before 753 BC, long before any AD year. The same thing happens when astronomical year numbering is used. Although that system has a year zero immediately before its year one, all positive astronomical years have the same AD number, so AD 2011 is +2011. Only the numbers assigned to BC years (before any year zero) are affected, thus Julius Caesar was assassinated in 44 BC, which is −43 using astronomical year numbering.
- AUC years come in many forms, including the official list by the Roman Emporer Augustus, that by Varro, and that by Livy (see Fasti#The Roman official chronicles). Furthermore, many modern editors "correct" the AUC numbers they find in ancient lists to fit their own ideas. So no single correspondence between AUC years and BC/AD years exists. AUC years are meaningless unless historical events are listed for at least some of them. These events include naming the consuls who held office each year, which was the dominant method of identifying years used by Roman historians, such as Suetonius in The Twelve Caesars. Furthermore, AD years were invented by Dionysius Exiguus long after AUC years ceased to be used. Dionysius stated that Probus Junior was consul during the year he identified as AD 525, but did not mention any AUC year. Thus a thousand year long list of Roman consuls must be used to correlate AUC years with AD years. Unfortunately, no two consular lists agree. Thus we must rely on modern scholars to construct a modern list which at least minimizes the disagreements between ancient lists of historical events and their corresponding AUC years, BC/AD years, and consular years. — Joe Kress (talk) 05:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
- I may have cited the wrong reason, but the difference between astronomical and traditional dating is really not the point. According to what I learned in Latin 222, the formula based on the City of Rome having been founded in 753 BC traditional (752 BC astronomical) is AUC=AD+752. One of our assignments was to construct a calendar each month in Latin using Kalends, Nones, and Ides alongside the regular ordinal numbers of days. We received bonus points for listing the then-current year Ab Urbe Condita in addition to the year Anno Domini. I took that class Anno Domini 2010, which was Ab Urbe Condita 2762.
- So, if Anno Domini 2010 was Ab Urbe Condita 2762, the current year Anno Domini 2011 is Ab Urbe Condita 2763. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 03:47, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Year-numbering for all listed dates
There are a number of dates listed in the article without a year-number system abbreviation. As this article is about a different system than the traditionally used BC/AD, they should be marked in order to clearly show when these dates were. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:05, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
What was Hadrianus celebrating?
The celebration of Antonius Pius in 148 AD makes sense, the 900. anniversary. But what was Hadrianus celebrating in 121 AD which was the rather unremarkable 873. anniversary? 188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
748 AUC = 6 BC (real birthday of Jesus Christ on April 17)
- 748 AUC = 6 BC (real birthday of Jesus Christ on April 17) ref: Star of Bethlehem, Michael Molnar http://MichaelMolnar.com . I'm currently watching History Channel's History's Mysteries "In Search Of Christmas" which includes an interview with the astronomer Michael Molnar who discovered Jesus' real birthday of April 17, 6 BC / 748 AUC. - Brad Watson, Miami 184.108.40.206 (talk) 22:43, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry: that's a self-published web page, which can't be used to reference material contained in Wikipedia articles. --Old Moonraker (talk) 08:52, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
All the analysis of the ecclipse dates appears to be OR. (It is also almost identical to material included in the Founding of Rome, under Date, which I have also flagged as OR. Havelock Jones (talk) 09:43, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The dates are not constant!
Appropriate Dating Styles
This is rather minor, but if we're going to stick with the Anno Domini AD style of dating, it should be known the the AD comes before year not after. This should be cleaned up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daevrojn (talk • contribs) 07:25, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
- The numbers used to indicate years are ordinal numbers. First year, second year, etc. In English we should say or write 1st year, 2nd year, etc. when using numerals, although most people neglect this. Anyhow, it's adjective before the noun in English, and I'm fairly certain that in Latin it works the same way with ordinal numbers, i.e. number first, then the noun it modifies. But it doesn't work this way with all adjectives, and if I'm not mistaken there is yet another rule depending upon whether or not the phrase appears in a sentence. Still, I suspect that in Latin, it's number first, then the noun it modifies. So, 1 AD, 2 AD, and so on, not AD 1, AD 1, etc.
- Someone with a better understanding of Latin grammar please help us out.
- 220.127.116.11 (talk) 00:13, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
- Latin is an inflected language, and doesn't have any fixed rules for word order. However, that doesn't really matter for our purpose, since we're writing the article in English. As a native English speaker, I would always write '2012 AD', not 'AD 2012', although I realise that some other native English speakers do it differently, hence the statement in WP:ERA.Havelock Jones (talk) 17:42, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
- As a native speaker of English (American), I understand the convention to be AD before the year and BC after. I'm using fourth edition of The Little, Brown Handbook by Fowler, Aaron from 1989 as a non-wikipedia reference for this convention. Also, currently, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era#Conventions_in_style_guides page confirms the use of this convention of AD before the year value and BC after the year value to denote "Anno Domini" and "Before Christ." So this should be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 22:04, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
- The article section "Common_Era#Conventions in style guides" is about how AD is treated in style guides for other publications. But the only style guide that counts is the one for the publication one is writing for. The portion of the style guide for Wikipedia that applies to dates is "Manual of Style/Dates and numbers" and the relevant section in that guide is "Era style". That says "AD may appear before or after a year (AD 106, 106 AD); the other abbreviations appear after (106 CE, 3700 BCE, 3700 BC)." Jc3s5h (talk) 14:53, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
What is ab urbe condita? What is anno urbis conditae?
ab urbe condita: Suppose that this year is 1 AUC (ab urbe condita). It's one year from the founding of the city. In other words, this is the year that follows the year during which the city was founded, no? So what year was the year of the founding of the city? If the calendar has no year zero, then that year was -1 AUC (ab urbe condita).
anno urbis conditae: Suppose instead that this year is 1 AUC (anno urbis conditae). Is it the year of the founding of the city? If so, then what was the prior year, a year prior to the year of the founding of the city? If the calendar has no year zero, then that year was -1 AUC (anno urbis conditae).
According to these meanings of the two phrases, -1 ab urbe condita was 1 anno urbis conditae. Likewise, 1 ab urbe condita was 2 anno urbis conditae. Now, which of the years, -1 ab urbe condita or -1 anno urbis conditae, is 753 BC? It cannot be both, though I won't argue for one or the other here. (Really, now. The arithmetic is fairly simple.) However, as I recall, the word conditae is, in part, an interesting play on words, not that this should have anything to do with our choice of which phrase, ab urbe condita or anno urbis conditae, we prefer when using the abbreviation AUC. After all, the root of condita is present in both phrases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 23:50, 18 October 2012 (UTC)