Talk:Abiogenesis

Abiogenesis video based on Dr.Jack Szostak's ideas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

Quickly put, this video appears to be interesting in this connection, as it presents life's development before the development of lipid membranes. proteins, DNA/RNA, but is a process developing the functionality of life ie growth, competition, replication, evolution, etc. at a complexity stage involving only existing thermal energy sources (no chlorophyll), and only normal chemistry. It is not produced by his lab, but checked and confirmed by them to be in accordance with his thinking, ie that of Dr Szostak, who got the Nobel Prize for his work with teleomers.

As this would, in terms of life's beginnings, push it back to an earlier stage of with less complexity; perhaps it should be incorporated in this article. To its merits are that it provides a path for evolution where the currently discussed processes could be attained.

I do not have the expertise in the subject nor have I ever written or revised an article. So my apologies for bringing up something which would require work by others. I love this subject, both on a biological scale and the cosmological one, thus this comment. Thankful for constructive comment.Idealist707 (talk) 20:37, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

• Youtube videos are not WP:RS, so are not a suitable basis for inclusion. Has this material been published (e.g. in a peer-reviewed journal)? Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 03:47, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• I have asked his lab to confirm it reflects their research.

Generally I would suspect that only key parts of the research have been published; but will see if there is a review article which has passed peer review. Haven't even googled it yet. Much left to do. Have you looked at the video, regardless of its WPvalue? Perhaps the producers of the video could provide this info and become engaged in this project. His Nobel Prize speech 2 years ago had only 10 minutes devoted to the last 20 years of his research, ie since he left the teleomer field behind him. If I understood him, his goal is to produce life from such basic processes. Not just to play at God, but to find how basic genetic processes can be controlled to improve medical diagnostics and remedies. Idealist707 (talk) 19:24, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• No, videos generally make for a poor foundation for writing an encyclopaedia article, so I did not bother. I think you'd be better off looking through Szostak's published writings than speeches and videos -- but that's up to you. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 03:03, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

• Looking at the reference list, I now understand the work done here.

Beyond my skills and level of engagement. My role is enthusiastic layman and fan. Thanks. Happy to have be guided by a civil person, not defending his ivory tower with five dragons and a very cutting tongue. My signature was/is "Retired, but not tired".Idealist707 (talk) 09:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

repeated content in the article.

I read the whole article and I felt that in many parts same things are being repeated again and again, making it a little bit... frustrating to read... are wikipedia articles meant to be read fully?--Irrational number (talk) 07:49, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Origin of Darwinian evolution rather than origin of life

Should there be some discussion before such a section is added to Abiogenesis? A separate article and a link may be a better way to handle this. Dan Watts (talk) 17:59, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Separating facts from faith.

I found it a little odd to read the following statement, "For views on the origins of life outside the natural sciences, see Creation myth" Yet it seems much of what I read in this article is also akin to a naturalistic creation myth, in that much is believed yet not demonstrated and taken on faith. I also think that there is some clever writing, yet the article should be a little more clear for the uninitiated, such the following statement which seems a little ambiguous "Abiogenesis (pronounced /ˌeɪbaɪ.ɵˈdʒɛnɨsɪs/ ay-by-oh-jen-ə-siss) or biopoiesis is the study of how biological life arises from inorganic matter through natural processes. In particular, the term usually refers to the processes by which life on Earth is thought to have arisen" I agree with the second sentence but the first is unnecessary and shows a certain bias. I would also like to see at least a significant part of the article speak of the pre biochemical logistical nightmares involved in the process of creating a living cell through human intel much less through random or unguided forces. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BENNY BALLEJO (talk • contribs) 23:12, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

50 years of research and no artificial life, therefore god did it. And just where is the research on that then? Have we recreated god creating life in the lab; if that was more plausible it would be easier to do than messing about with random processes. SkyMachine ⁽⁺⁺⁾ 06:30, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure we shouldn't beat that dead horse just a little harder? 209.6.28.116 (talk) 20:28, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Arose or thought to have a rose?

I reverted a change from "arisen" to "thought to have arisen". The article is obsessively PC as it is, and we don't need all that pussyfooting, especially when it is meaningless; if life turns out to have arisen by being quickened by the finger of a creator, then the study of that process by which it arose is by definition the valid subject matter of abiogenesis. Otherwise we wind up replacing every single verb in the article with "thought to have ..." as in "thought to have thought to have thought to have arisen" or something thought to have amounted to that. JonRichfield (talk) 11:38, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The sentance reads as "In particular, the term usually refers to the processes by which life on Earth has arisen", however it is not entirely certain life did arise on Earth as oposed to ariving in a preexisting organised state through panspermia or exogenesis. These are less plausible origins than the emergence on Earth but not so implausible that we should discount them as having never happened without further evidence to entirely falsify them. It is a bonus but not the aim that young earthers read "thought to have arisen" as a concession to them, as it keeps them docile as they go about living their delusional bronze age fantasies. SkyMachine ⁽⁺⁺⁾ 21:21, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

<Gronk!> OK, OK! I suppose... I won't change it back, but I won't make difficulties if someone else does. <mttr... mttr...! Stone heads in bronze ages... Gronk!> JonRichfield (talk) 07:31, 22 February 2012 (UTC)