Talk:Adderall

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Good article Adderall has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
December 3, 2014 Good article nominee Listed
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The lead[edit]

The lead of this article isn't really adequate. I don't really have the time to write/expand it at the moment, but if anyone is interested, it could use another paragraph or two to (adequately) summarize the article. Refer to WP:LEAD if interested. The lead of amphetamine might be useful as well since the articles now have several identical sections - I've imported every relevant section from that article. Seppi333 (talk) 10:12, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Seppi333 (Insert  | Maintained) 17:03, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Transclusions[edit]

I've transcluded as many sections as I think are necessary to keep this page up-to-date. I'd like to keep this page a little more accessible to the layperson than the amphetamine article, so I don't intend to transclude the more technical sections like pharmacology. I'd appreciate feedback related to the section transclusions, so feel free to post it here if you have any for me. Seppi333 (Insert  | Maintained) 20:52, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Interactions[edit]

According to the citation, a basic GI pH (such as that caused by H2 blockers or PPIs) increases the absorption rate of Adderall, and a basic urinary pH causes decreased excretion. As far as I can tell, the current statement written is incorrectly.98.116.134.143 (talk) 12:31, 5 August 2014 (UTC)Mike

Fixed - Thanks for pointing that out. Seppi333 (Insert  | Maintained) 18:31, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Changing Title Back to "Amphetamine Mixed Salts"[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
There is a general consensus against renaming the article

@Seppi333: @Boghog: @Callanecc: @Jmh649: I'm the one who got this page moved from "Adderall" to "Amphetamine mixed salts" a few months ago. I wasn't made aware that this change was being reverted. I very strongly believe that it should be moved back for the following reasons:

  • There was no consensus and, had I been notified, there may have been a consensus against it. Callanecc suggested to wait for consensus but that advice wasn't followed.
  • In most countries, including the United States, amphetamine salts are available as a generic and required to by law to be filled as a generic unless the patient demands the brand.
  • Seppi333 wrote "'Dextroamphetamine saccharate and amphetamine aspartate monohydrate and dextroamphetamine sulfate and amphetamine sulfate' per PHARMMOS? Personally, I prefer "Adderall" to a 12 word name.", but those obviously aren't the only two options (we were using another, more reasonable option then).
  • When filled as a generic, the medication is labeled "amphetamine salts" or some variant of that.
  • The other wiki sites can be changed to the generic name, and they should, considering that it makes more sense.
  • I don't know of a single example of a medication currently available as a generic (and primarily filled as a generic) that is listed under its brand name.
  • Because of generics laws, pharmaceutical brand names like that are going to become decreasingly relevant.
  • Ritalin is probably the best precedent. The brand name "Ritalin" is probably more ubiquitous than "Adderall", and "methylphenidate" is surely more arcane than "amphetamine" (or some variant thereof). Regardless, the article is titled methylphenidate.

Exercisephys (talk) 15:20, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

I would support seeing it moved back. We really need to stay with more generic names. This ref refers to it as a mixed salt [1] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:24, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Strong Oppose : Amphetamine mixed salts is not a generic name for this drug. There is/was no citation anywhere on the page that this name is even in use. There is no basis for using this as a common name. Might as well rename other drug pages to some pseudo-generic name if this is used as a precedent. Seppi333 (Insert  | Maintained) 21:57, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Strong Oppose. WP:PHARMOS advises that drug article names be named after the International Nonproprietary Name (INN) if one exists. However no INN has been assigned to Adderall. One possible fall back is the United States Adopted Name (USAN), but no USAN has been assigned to Adderall either.
There are no generally agreed upon generic names for Adderall. Ones that are in common use include:
  • amphetamine/dextroamphetamine mixed salts (rxlist.com)
  • dextroamphetamine mixed salts of a single-entity amphetamine product (FDA)
  • dextroamphetamine saccharate, amphetamine aspartate monohydrate, dextroamphetamine sulfate and amphetamine sulfate (dailymed)
The only name given above that is precise is the last one, but this name is far too long to be used as an article title.
Wikipedia article naming criteria include naturalness (one that readers are likely search for), precision (unambiguously identify the article's subject), and conciseness (title is no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject). "Adderall" fulfills all of the criteria whereas "ampethamine mixed salts" fulfills none. Boghog (talk) 00:54, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose I find Boghog's rationale the best representative of WP naming policy. While I strongly agree with Doc James that we should stick with generic names, in this particular case that doesn't (currently) work. -- Scray (talk) 02:35, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Strong Oppose. User:Exercisephys wrote: I don't know of a single example of a medication currently available as a generic (and primarily filled as a generic) that is listed under its brand name. Heroin is a good counter-example. Also, I agree with User:Boghog and User:Seppi333 KMeyer (talk) 19:28, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
@KMeyer: This issue has long been settled, but just because I found your statement a little ridiculous, I'd like to point out that heroin is almost exclusively a black-market narcotic. Amphetamine salts, on the other hand, are exclusively prescription because who the hell would bother synthesizing this specific mixture of enantiomers and salts. Exercisephys (talk) 21:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
@Exercisephys: I'm not sure I see your point -- Adderall also plays a role as a black-market narcotic. Heroin is the trademark name for (what is generically known as) diamorphine, and yet Diamorphine redirects to Heroin. "Amphetamine Mixed Salts" is so vague it probably does describe (impure) black-market speed or meth. KMeyer (talk) 13:14, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
@KMeyer: My point is that heroin exists mainly as a completely black-market drug, including manufacture. While it's technically available by prescription in some European countries, it isn't really a prescription drug anymore. Also, "amphetamine mixed salts" is only used to refer to this formulation, not street speed. I can promise that you won't find a meth dealer on a street-corner offering you "amphetamine mixed salts".
@Exercisephys: Not sure how you conclude that "it isn't really a prescription drug anymore" after preceding the statement with "it's technically available by prescription in some European countries." Doublethink? You will absolutely find people selling Adderall on black markets, and they name it "adderall" and not "amphetamine mixed salts." If black market naming is good enough to say low-quality speed is not named ampheta-mixed-salts, it's good enough to say adderall is named adderall. This discussion is getting pointless as the rename request is denied.
  • Oppose "Adderall" is what people are searching for, it's the common name, and unlike most other drugs, there is no encyclopedia-title-friendly generic name. Methylphenidate is on par with "amphetamine", but "amphetamine mixed salts" and any variation thereof is atrociously awkward. In addition, in my experience in a hospital environment, doctors refer to it as adderall almost exclusively. Contrast this to something like diazepam, which is referred to as such and not as Valium. Noformation Talk 21:57, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
@Noformation: To be fair, how many people search for "Cannabis (drug)"? Part of the title is the statement it makes, the implications it has, and the things it supports. Exercisephys (talk) 01:09, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
If I understand your implication correctly, it's a fair enough point, but I don't know that it would change my outlook in a general sense. Just to be clear: I think that "adderall" is the exception, and by no means the rule. Noformation Talk 11:31, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Adderall/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 16:09, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


I note that this review has been taken earlier and deleted, so I'll have this one up within 48 hours. Jaguar 16:09, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. Has an appropriate reference section:
    B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

Initial comments[edit]

  • The prose in this article is generally very good. However I notice a concern of WP:OVERLINK problems, especially in the lead section. Obvious terms such as performance and fast heartbeat could be unlinked
Yes check.svg Done - pruned 2 others I thought were unnecessary as well
  • Is it OK for most parts of this article to be transcluded from Amphetamine?
Pictogram voting info.svg Note: This isn't done often, so there isn't a policy governing the way article-article transclusions are applied. The only reason I did this is because there's so much content overlap between amphetamine, adderall, dextroamphetamine, and lisdexamfetamine (each of which is notable in its own right) that I decided it was simpler to just update 1 page instead of all 4 whenever I needed to change something common to all pages. Nonetheless, there's actually a quite a few of {{if pagename}} templates in the source code of amphetamine that tailors the transcluded text to each article, where appropriate (for example, the first sentence of medical uses in each article). Adderall has the most content overlap with amphetamine, so I decided to write this article as a simpler, more lay-readable version of that article in the more technical sections (primarily pharmacology; the addiction sections also differ a little to improve accessibility in this article - Adderall has a glossary of terms, while Amphetamine has a very technical signal transduction diagram.
  • More overlinking in the Contraindications section; depression and blood pressure could be lost. Also, it would be best to explain that "severely elevated blood pressure" is hypertension in this section
Yes check.svg Done
  • "Addiction is a serious risk" - I would unlink addiction and refer it to something like "increase of substance dependence" in order to extend prose
Pictogram voting info.svg Note: I deleted the "substance dependence" text and replaced it with Drug addiction for consitency with the addiction glossary terms. I've recently started standardizing the mixed terminology involving dependence/addiction in various addiction articles for reasons I noted at the end of this thread: WT:MED#Lead containing a large glossary of terms. Funny how I didn't notice it here. :P
  • "Adderall has been banned in the National Football League (NFL), Major League Baseball (MLB), National Basketball Association (NBA)" - some of these could be linked?
Yes check.svg Done - linked all 3
  • "ΔFosB also plays an important role in regulating behavioral responses to natural rewards, such as palatable food, sex, and exercise" - natural rewards?
Pictogram voting info.svg Note: I wikilinked the term, though I can also indicate that these refer to behaviors if you think it's worth doing so. Natural rewards are simply rewarding behaviors (these were named as such to make a distinction between drug rewards - the "unnatural" kind - and behavioral rewards)
  • "The effects of amphetamine on gene regulation are both dose- and route-dependent" - hyphens should be removed here
Pictogram voting info.svg Note: The phrase "dose-dependent" is typically hyphenated (the source cited in that sentence follows this convention), I merely hyphenated route since I assume it follows the same grammar rule. I don't really care about how the sentence is written though, so if you prefer I can just rephrase it as "dependent upon dose and route of administration" or the like.
  • "The maximum penalty for unauthorized possession is 5 years in prison" - would put this as five (for figures lower than ten)
Yes check.svg Done

Thanks for being thorough! Face-smile.svg Seppi333 (Insert  | Maintained) 18:35, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

References[edit]

  • Ref 107 should be deleted, it redirects to a Japanese website
  • Other than that all references are in working order
  • Citations (there are a lot) are all in the correct places, so this meets the GA criteria
I deleted that ref; I'd have removed it sooner had I noticed that it was a bare url. Seppi333 (Insert  | Maintained) 18:35, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

On hold[edit]

I have to admit I'm not well versed on the subject of prescription drugs but from a copyediting point of view this article is well written, comprehensive and other than the fact of most of it being trascluded from amphetamine it is near GA material. I am also not sure why the last GAR was cancelled, but in its current form there seem to be few problems. The points I mentioned above were only technical and minor, so I'll put this on hold for the standard seven days until those have been addressed. Thanks, Jaguar 17:16, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Close - promoted[edit]

@Seppi333: thanks for addressing them! I agree with you and am relieved regarding the transclusion with amphetamine, there is no problem with any policy on any overlap of information. In fact it is better that one article contains so much information instead of having four articles contain the same amount of content. The prose in this article was already very good which explains the review being on the short side. It's comprehensive, well written, well references and stable. The images are also interesting. Regarding the phrase "dose-dependent", if it's ok I'll leave it to you what you think is best? Anyway, well done on the GA Good article Jaguar 20:00, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Trial FAC run[edit]

@AmericanLemming, Boghog: First off, I want to thank both of you for all the work you two did to help promote the amphetamine article to FA status. Getting that article through FAC was an endless and massive pain in the ass and I doubt it would have been promoted without the assistance each of you provided.

As for this article, after some consideration of AmericanLemming's suggestion to nominate the article, I've decided to do a trial run at FAC to see how things go. Hopefully I won't encounter another Shudde...

I don't think this article is actually comprehensive at the moment since it lacks a pharmacokinetics section. It was deleted a while back IIRC. For that particular section, I'll probably just copy/paste the Adderall-relevant content from amphetamine into this article and then simplify the text to make it more accessible than the amphetamine section. Other than that section, do either of you think the article needs any further expansion or restructuring to be FA quality?

Besides the restructuring, I need to do some prose copyediting in the non-transcluded sections before nominating this; as far as I can tell, the article easily conforms to the other FA criteria. Seppi333 (Insert  | Maintained) 19:20, 29 January 2015 (UTC)