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|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Adobe ColdFusion article.|
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I've removed the personal spam claim against me from here. It's misleading as the links were all to different resources.
Companies using ColdFusion
While evaluating ColdFusion for a future, project, I fact checked the companies listed under "Companies using ColdFusion." While it is true that these companies did use ColdFusion in the past, they do not now. Many of these entries are extraordinarily dated, some as early as 2000. Further, contacting these companies, revealed that they do not use the technology any longer.
"All versions of ColdFusion prior to 6.0 were written using Microsoft Visual C++. This meant that ColdFusion was largely limited to running on Microsoft Windows, although Allaire did successfully port ColdFusion to Sun Solaris starting with version 3.1."
Just because it's written with a Microsoft IDE doesn't mean it's limited to Windows at all. This could probably use a bit of a reworking if anyone's interested. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 21:25, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
What is the programming language mentioned in the lead?
The lead contains: "ColdFusion is used to refer to both a commercial rapid application development platform ... , and the programming language used with that platform."
What is the programming language? Is it CFML or CFScript? Or both?
- CFML is the language, and is a single language, with two syntax styles (tag-style and script-style).
- cfscript is the tag used to embed the script-style syntax into a tag-style file. (Until recently, this tag was required to use the script syntax; both now pure script files are accepted.)
- ColdFusion is the Adobe software product which implements CFML. (This article should really remain focused on ColdFusion the product, and leave discussion of CFML the language to the CFML article.)
- It is common for people to refer to the language/code as ColdFusion, but this is inaccurate and rather like people calling their web browser "the internet".
- I've made an attempt to clarify this in the article, though I'm not really happy with the wording used, so if anyone else wants to have a go at improving it further that'd be great.
- Peter Boughton (talk) 15:25, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Criticism over transition to India
To be clear on my stance: I see this as irrelevant in general and not useful information for a Wikipedia page - being little more than nationalistic whingeing - but I'm not going to get into an edit war over it.
However, it definitely does not belong in the article overview, so I have created a "criticism" section and attempted to write a balanced WP:NPOV version. If other editors feel this information is worth having, they can update as appropriate, but I have no objections to the section being removed.
I think it's extremely relevant- I use ColdFusion every day and have been with it since version 7. It has nothing to do with nationalism, it has to do with a pronounced drop off in quality, communication, and support (both in Adobe responses to issues and in support documents). I agree that a criticism section is probably more appropriate, however I removed any references to "anger from Americans over American jobs", as that sentiment is not stated in the article.
If there was a notable journalist article discussing it then it might be relevant, but one person's blog article is not necessarily enough to make it useful for a Wikipedia page. (WP is for encyclopaedic content, and I'm not sure this counts as that.)
My interpretation of both the blog entry and the original WP edit is "CF moved to India, because of which it's getting worse", as opposed to "there has been a reduction in quality, which seems to correlate with the change in development team" - i.e. the complaint appears to stem from the location change.
Currently the article doesn't reference communication/support - though I can see these might be valid concerns, so worth representing?
The title change to "Outsourcing" is incorrect, since that means "subcontracting to another company" whilst what has happened is a relocation within the same company. Should probably be "Relocation" or "Restructuring" or something.
I tried to find some more "notable journals" discussing it, but I wasn't able to find anything at the moment. I don't dispute that the blogs currently referenced are probably not the best way to support a statement. However I maintain that the move and subsequent decline are relevant pieces of information for the article.
I renamed the section to "Offshoring", as per your critique. I also added some supporting statements about the decline of CF, however they are focused more on the decline of use/popularity. Feel free to edit as you see fit. I feel that articles are usually made better with this kind of back-and-forth.
- For the most part, blogs are not considered reliable sources. Further, using search results as a source is, at best, original research. Neither belongs in an encyclopedia article. No doubt there's some criticism of Adobe's India move, but we need better sources than that. —Al E.(talk) 16:11, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The link to the offshoring article is broken.
Database error: : Datasource could not be found.
I vote that we keep the link to emphasise the dangers of offshoring :)
<rant> Of course, there are many better criticisms than offshoring. All the best criticisms are on websites/blogs.
Wiki is not concerned with the content of the criticisms but who voiced them and where. Maybe that works for politics but it should not matter when criticisms can be verified by looking at the actual subject. It seems like you cannot say a dog has 4 legs unless a preferred source says so. If a preferred source says 5 legs then that's what wiki will tell it's audience. </rant>
ColdFusion redirecting to Adobe ColdFusion
Should ColdFusion be a separate wiki entry? It seems odd ColdFusion directs to Adobe_ColdFusion when it could redirect to Railo or OpenBD, other ColdFusion servers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhenke (talk • contribs) 17:28, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
- At the top of the article is written: "This article is about the computer programming language. For other uses, see Cold Fusion (disambiguation).". So no need for any move or change! Regards, mabdul 19:25, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
- ColdFusion is not a programming language, it's a software platform. There is only one ColdFusion server - Adobe ColdFusion.
- The product is called "Adobe ColdFusion" by its makers, in the same way as their graphics app is called "Adobe Photoshop" - both are commonly referred to as just ColdFusion and Photoshop respectively, but Wikipedia still has the article at Adobe Photoshop with Photoshop being a redirect. Same applies to LiveCycle, Flash Player and others.
- Just because Roland was a bit of a plonker doesn't mean everything he did was bad, and I don't see any reason not to be consistent here.
- -- Peter Boughton (talk) 12:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Suggested CFBuilder merge
Whilst I'm here, the suggested merge of CFBuilder into this article doesn't make sense.
ColdFusion is an application server. You can write code for it with any standard editor or IDE, (and there are multiple CFML oriented ones).
ColdFusion Builder is an IDE; the spiritual successor to ColdFusion Studio (HomeSite variant). It's geared up for and integrates with ColdFusion, but is an entirely separate product (with a separate price tag).