|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Afridi article.|
I see some glaring POV issues saying things such as the Afridies fought bravely against the British (under crime)...just one example...I suspect the article needs an overhaul
I think they meant that because the Afridis opposed the British, they were subsequently forced into lives of crime. I think the person that added that informaton just used the wrong words.--Double edge86 00:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
removed from article
The Islamization of the eponymous ancestor of all Pashtuns is probably a fabrication. This is supported by the fact that his progeny do not have Islamic names. Moreover, even here, the name is NOT spelt in the Arabic fashion i.e Qais Abd Ar Rahman.Isupzai (talk)
POV and Unsourced statements
This article has been tagged for being in need substantial improvement, especially in verifiability and sourcing. I also see some POV, unencyclopedic statements. It's an alert for readers to be aware of the questionable sustance of the article.--Jhelyam (talk) 19:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Shahnaz Ali's DNA study
I have contacted by email Professor Karl Skorecki from Technion. He says that the media reports are inaccurate in one point. Skorecki sent me a very detailed email, but I'll have to omit the details of his reply because it was a private email. I will just do a quick summary of what I understood from the email.
Shahnaz Ali is working in the Technion laboratory, but his study is being done outside the laboratory due to several reasons. According to Skorecki, the work made by Shahnaz Ali in the Technion laboratory has nothing to do with the Afridi-Pashtun DNA study. I gather that Shahnaz Ali is in contact about this study with India scholar Dr. Navras Jaat Aafreedi, who is not affiliated with the Technion laboratory. Skorecki says that studies like the one done by Shahnaz Ali could be done in the future in Technion, but only after a long list of prerequisites is met.
It seems that the media reports mixed the work made by Shahnaz Ali in Technion with the work made by Shahnaz Ali outside of Technion.
So, I will remove the text "collaborated with the Technion – Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa" because it was misleading readers into thinking that Technion was helping with the Afridi-Pashtun DNA study. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Afridi women torture
The information about Afridi women torturing the prisoners keeps being removed. But this is not a far-fetched information, see that the Afridi had a reputation as being cruel:
"The normally cruel and perfidious Afridis held him in such high esteem that he did not need to go armed among them." Supremacy by Stealth, Atlantic Monthly
"so that 'even the savage Afridi' and 'the most brutal of men' were moved to sing", quoting a poem used to teach students Reinforcing Ideologies about Women: A Critique of the English Texts for Undergraduates., Panjab University Research Journal.
Dear User:Enric Naval and other Editors/Wikipedians, the information that you cite is quite true in as much as a number of Pakhtun/Pushtun tribes in what are now Pakistan and Afghanistan, are concerned. Ritual torture and mutilation of prisoners by womenfolk was certainly prevalent amongst the Afridi, Mahsud, Wazir and several other tribes. However, rather than heredity, one would say that a primitive tribal culture encouraged such an attitude, wouldnt you say? In Anthropology, we see that such rituals also existed recently amongst (a) Native American tribes like the Apache, the Sioux, Cheyenne, Comanche and others (b) several African tribes, including the Zulu and Ashanti (c) amongst various Turkic/Mongol tribes in Central Asia and (d) various other tribes and peoples around the world, although Im sorry I dont have immediate refs available. In earlier times, such customs/rituals also prevailed amongst the Celts, Picts and Germanic tribes in Europe. Couldnt we please somehow reflect this sort of argument/discussion in the text of this article, to show genuine scholarly content? The 'heredity' argument has always been a rather dangerous one and invariably led to facile labelling of human beings in narrow perspectives. Thanks. Khani100 (talk) 07:40, 4 April 2012 (UTC)Khani100
Also, I think that there are a number of very famous Afridis who deserve to have some notice herein, and I hope to be able to create relevant pages for at least 2-3 in due course. Best regs, Khani100 (talk) 07:40, 4 April 2012 (UTC)Khani100
'Also see ' section
I would please recommend cleaning up the 'Also see' section here as there are many articles added there that arent directly relevant to this article/topic and at least one (Tanoli) seems to be put there just to advertise the non-Pushtun tribe! As a Tanoli myself, I must decry this! : ) Thanks. Khani100 (talk) 07:44, 4 April 2012 (UTC)Khani100
is the following passage true? references look good, in which case should be here.
- I've deleted as as I don't see the Robert Masters books as reliable sources and can find no other sources which mention the Afridi women. I've deleted that from the 2 other articles. Also, if you copy and paste you need to say this in the edit summary with a link to the web page where you copied it from. Dougweller (talk) 10:25, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Pathan women in the North-West Frontier Province (1901–1955) of Pakistan during the Anglo-Afghan Wars used a method of execution involving urine, Pathan women urinated into prisoner's mouths. Captured British soldiers were spread out on the ground and fastened with restraints to the ground, then a stick or a piece of wood was used to keep their mouth open to prevent swallowing. Pathan women, taking turns one at a time, then squatted and urinated directly into the mouth of the man until he drowned in the urine. This method of execution was reported to have been practiced specifically by the women of the Afridi tribe of the Pashtuns.
No refs in British history section
- George Devereux (1976). Dreams in Greek tragedy: an ethno-psycho-analytical study. University of California Press. p. 237. ISBN 0-520-02921-6. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- John Masters (1956). Bugles and a tiger: a volume of autobiography. Viking Press. p. 190. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- Donald F. Featherstone (1973). Colonial small wars, 1837-1901. David & Charles. p. 9. ISBN 0-7153-5711-5. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- Charles Miller (1977). Khyber, British India's north west frontier: the story of an imperial migraine. Macdonald and Jane's. p. 359. ISBN 0-354-04167-3. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- Donald Sydney Richards (1990). The savage frontier: a history of the Anglo-Afghan wars. Macmillan. p. 182. ISBN 0-333-52557-4. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- Charles Chenevix Trench (1985). The frontier scouts. Cape. ISBN 0-224-02321-7. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- H. S. Mahle (1985). Indo-Anglian fiction: some perceptions : including some lectures on Karnadʾs Tughlaq. Jainsons Publications. p. 24. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- John Clay (1992). John Masters: a regimented life. the University of Michigan: Michael Joseph. p. 62. ISBN 0-7181-2945-8. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- John Masters (June 13, 2002). Bugles and a Tiger. Cassell Military (June 13, 2002). p. 190. ISBN 0-304-36156-9. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- Robert E. L. Masters, Eduard Lea (1963). Perverse crimes in history: evolving concepts of sadism, lust-murder, and necrophilia from ancient to modern times. Julian Press. p. 211. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.
- Robert E. L. Masters, Eduard Lea (1963). Sex crimes in history: evolving concepts of sadism, lust-murder, and necrophilia, from ancient to modern times. Julian Press. p. 211. Retrieved 5 April, 2011.