Talk:Age of consent

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pedophilia out , homosexuality in[edit]

In the sex and the law box some politruk included pedophilia as an "offense" although it is a disease. Also since various jurisdictions are mentioned we should not forget another grave offense in many parts of the world which is understandably homosexuality (you might say buggery and sodomy imply it but let's not cut corners here comrades!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.77.223.99 (talk) 02:32, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what a politruk is, but if it is pejorative you should probably refrain from so characterizing your fellow editors. As to the rest, you have good points and I raised them at Template talk:Sex and the law, which is where the text resides (that template is only transcluded into this article). Herostratus (talk) 04:15, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Map[edit]

Can someone take care of the map and do some small changes to correct the errors?

see: Ages of consent in Africa and Ages of consent in South America

also: the color for age 12 must be changed (a light yellow I think would do); and the color for age 13 must be a little lighter (a lighter shade of blue) because the map currently uses 5 shades of blue (for ages 12, 13, 14, 15, 16) which are quite difficult to distinguish from one another. 5.12.220.251 (talk) 02:13, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
China is also off. Pulled img, pending corrections.  — LlywelynII 16:36, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
Someone changed Spain to 16, but I don't think the law has changed yet (it has been approved in principle, but it's not law yet; and it's not clear if it will be 15 or 16). I've removed the map. 2A02:2F0A:502F:FFFF:0:0:BC19:AD00 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Restored (although the accuracy of the map is compromised due to it being outdated, it still can be helpful to some readers; it also can easily be stated in the captions that the map may not be up to date.--GuyHimGuy (talk) 05:50, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Inconsistencies with how countries have their age of consent assessed[edit]

While I understand that very few people actual understand the complex system of the law, I have noticed that some countries such as Japan, which has a national law implemented on the age of consent, is in actuality governed by regional law on the matter. While I understand that going by national law rather than regional law is one method of going about this page, a country like the USA, has its age of consent divided by region. I find it very inconsistent that each country has their age of consent judged differently, and it should either be determined on national law for all countries, or regional law for all countries. Honestly, what I believe the problem of this page to be is that it paints a very black and white picture of age of consent when the subject is actually very complex, and cannot be, and should not, simplified to a simple "age of consent in country X is Y". I believe the purpose of Wikipedia is to inform people, not give people an inaccurate picture. It is better to not explain at all rather than explain inaccurately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sassyftw (talkcontribs) 06:14, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough comment. Generally speaking the US is often covered in far greater detail than other countries, and non-English speaking countries often get the least level of detail. But that's not intentional: the volunteers that edit this page simply don't speak those other languages, so it's often difficult to find primary, reliable information and source it. Bilingual editors are a treasured resource, but hard to recruit.Legitimus (talk) 13:24, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
I would be happy to provide the necessary edits with the appropriate sources. The main purpose I put this discussion up was to confirm whether or not the page was open to such a change. While I have only studied British law, I am sure that I can find appropriate material from Japanese Government sites. Unfortunately Japan is the only country that I can actually research in detail, outside of Japan, there is little I can do. I also apologise if my earlier comment was on the aggressive side. It was actually reading a recent newspaper article, and the comments on it, that had me irritated rather than Wikipedia. I will admit that I am not entirely familiar with Wikipedia's editing system, but I am sure I can learn. Seeing as this page doesn't actually outline the countries in detail, the necessarily detail should be added to the Asian page instead? Sassyftw (talk) 14:47, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Certainly it is open to editing if you want to make changes, especially if you have reliable sources. Editing takes some practice, so I suggest when you make edits, press "Preview" first instead of "Save page" and look at how it appears, then make appropriate changes to your material. Often the various codes and marks can take some trial and error to get to appear correctly. I and other editors can make fixes to your edits as well.
You are correct in that this page is meant as a summary, whereas fine detail is provided in the sub-pages like Ages of consent in Asia. However if the summary on this page seems misleading about the nature of the law in certain nations, you can make some changes to this page as well as long as it doesn't get too long-winded.Legitimus (talk) 13:45, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

We want to be careful about imputing motivations for old laws[edit]

An editor added this paragraph to the end of the "History and social attitudes" section (before the "Modern laws" subsection):

The purpose of these laws was to preserve female virginity and protect the ownership rights of the father (whose daughter could become unmarriageable if deflowered) and to prevent premarital sex -'fornication'. The concept of child exploitation/child abuse as understood contemporary would develop much later.[1][2]
  1. ^ http://inter-disciplinary.net/ati/els/els1/dcruze%20paper.pdf
  2. ^ The Emergence of a New Taboo: The Desexualization of Youth in Western Societies Since 1800. by Martin Killias. European Journal on Criminal Policy and Research Vol.8 (2000). ISSN 0928-1371.

The preceding paragraph says:

  • In the 16th century, a small number of Italian and German states set the minimum age for sexual intercourse for girls, setting it at 12 years.
  • Towards the end of the 18th century, other European countries also began to enact similar laws. *The first French Constitution of 1791 established the minimum age at 11 years.
  • Portugal, Spain, Denmark and the Swiss cantons, initially set the minimum age at 10–12 years. [N.B. no dates given]

and I assume these are the "these laws" referred to. (If the paragraph is intended to cover all the laws described in the entire section, going back to antiquity, that's an extremely broad area and I'd be skeptical of any one-sentence summary of the motivations for all of that.)

But the first ref (D'Cruz) doesn't support the assertion, at all. D'Cruz, though versed in the subject generally, does not write well so it's not always clear what she's saying, but she doesn't say anything close to that (her paper is mostly about adolescent girls in Britain 1850-1940 anyway). Killias I can't access.

This got me wondering "Why was the French Republic motivated to especially protect paternal property rights and prevent fornication, while the Old Regime wasn't?" since the Republic wasn't reactionary on most matters, I think; I know little of the details of this period, but it's a reasonable question, and similar questions arise for the other instance. Figuring out why people made a law is hard, particularly when it was 500 years ago, and I'm leery of presenting a single one-sentence cause to the reader and saying "that's it". So I'm skeptical that Killias (or anyone) can do that, and doubly so since I know the other ref presented (D'Cruz) didn't, so I removed the paragraph for now on that basis.

The editor did add other useful material elsewhere for which I thank her, and D'Cruz offers some good material (mostly in her refs) and it might be useful to offer the reader some suggestions on what was going in people's heads when they made these laws, but it's probably complicated and we want to be cautious here. Herostratus (talk) 06:09, 15 April 2014 (UTC)