Talk:Agvan Dorzhiev

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Source Nr 7 has not correct information[edit]

This, rather late 2001 published book claiming Agvan Dordzhi as Russian citizen is wrong. He left Burjatia, then part of Imperial Russia, earlier than 1873 for Tibet to become a novise in one Lamaist monastery. When Professor Georg J. Ramstedt visited in 1919 as the appointed ambassasor of Republic of Finland in Kingdom of Siam to introduce himself to the Royal Siamese Government in Bangkok he met in addition to Minister of Foreign Affairs Prince Dyva Davavongse of Siamese Royal House several members of Siamese Royal House. During his visit he was invited by another Siamese Royal House Prince to make also a visit to his home. There during the discussusion how to develope Siamese and Finnish relations, the talk turned to their common friend Burjaattimongoli Agvan Dordzhi who Ramstedt knew very well, meeting him in several occassions in Mongolia.

This text appears in his book "Lähettiläänä Nipponissa, Muistelmia vuosilta 1919 - 1929." Porvoo & Helsinki WSOY 1950. The text is in original form in Finnish.

...keskustelumme aikana selvisi, että muuan burjaatti (Siperian mongoleja) Agvan Dordzhi oli yhteisiä tuttaviamme. Tämä Agvan Dordzhi oli pitkät ajat oleskellut Tiibetissä, Lhasassa, ja mikäli muistan oikein ollut Tiibetin rahaministerinä. Hän oli virkamatkoillaan Dalai Laman henkilökohtaisena edustajana ja Kashogin jäsenenä kulkenut laajalti Aasiassa, käynyt usein mm. Etu- ja Taka-Intiassakin niiden budhalaisia luostareita katselemassa. Erään matkan hän oli tehnyt Venäjän keisarin Nikolai II:n luokse. Vaikka tämä hänen matkansa olikin kokonaan epäpoliittinen, oli sillä suuret poliittiset seuraukset, jotka eivät olleet suotuisia hänen maalleen (his country) Tiibetille. Hän oli nimittäin käynyt Venäjän hovissa selostamassa niitä vaikeuksia, joita hänen heimolaisensa burjaatit ja kalmukit saivat varsinkin uskontojensa harjoittamisen suhteen kokea Venäjän rajojen sisäpuolella, ja oli retkensä Pietariin tehnyt saadakseen uskon veljilleen Venäjällä tunnistetun aseman suvaittuna uskonlahkona. Mutta tämä hänen matkansa koitui Tiibetille onnettomuudeksi. Englantilaiset, saadessaan matkan tietoonsa, tulkitsivat sen tarkoituksen toisin. He otaksuivat (suggested), että Agvan Dordzhi, joka Venäjän keisarille oli Tiibetistä lahjoina tuonut joukon harvinaisia kalleuksia ja tiibetiläisiä koruja, oli Pietarissa tavoittemessa Venälän suosiota tai sopimassa sen ylivallan ulottamisesta Tiibetiin. Ehtiäkseen ennen englantilaiset järjestivät sotilasretkikunnan, ns. Younghusbandin retken Lhassaan v. 1904. Retkikunnan matka Tiibetin sydämeen muodostui sotaretkeksi, sillä tiibetiläiset tietenkin nousivat vastarintaan, mutta alkeellisilla aseillaan varustettuina kärsivät musertavia tappioita. Ne taistelut, joihin tiibetiläiset maahantunkeutujia vastaan antautuivat, muodostuivat suoranaiseksi verilöylyiksi, eräässä laaksossa n. 500 tibetiläistä lamaa, joista suurin osa oli vain jousilla ja nuolilla varustettuja ja joissa vain muutamilla oli keskiaikaisia hakapyssyjä asenaan, surmattiin murhaavassa konekivääritulessa. Tämä samainen Agvan Dordzhi, johon keskustelumme prinssin kanssa kääntyi oli budhalaisissa maissa hyvin tunnettu ja kunnioitettu. Hän oli mm. perustanut kirjallisuusseuran Mongoliaan; hän nimittäin koitti saada aikaan sellaisia muutoksia mongolinkielen oikeinkirjoitukseen, että se vastaisi paremmin nykyisin puhuttua kieltä.

It would be the same than British Government would claim in 1913 an Irishman who had in 1863 emigrated to United States to be an British subject despite his United States citizenship.

From this text it is clearly seen that Agnev Dordzhi´s journey to St.Petersburg was not an political one. He only tried to get the Lamaism religion in Russia to more favourable position to make his fellow Budhists Burjaatti- and Kalmukki brothers live more easier with their practised religion. In fact, it seems that one person in His Majestic Embassy in St.Petersburg reacted too strongly to this unpolitical visit suggesting that Agvan Dordzhi was gaining some Russian favour or to negotiate the expansion of Russian rule over Tibet. This person seems to have been later Sir Charles Eliot, later British ambassador in Tokio, Japan. Before that one meets him as legal British Government representantive in Siberia in Admiral Kolchak regime. According to this text please change the main article text to follow this much more reliable source. As you see there are also sources in other languages than English language written by the persons who knew personally Agvan Dordzhi and had developed over the years good relations with him. It may be worth of mentioning here that Professor Ramstedt was one of few foreigners who was invited to Lhassa by both Dalai Lama and Agvan Dordzhi. Really a great honour to western race representantive. Such an offer was never offered to any British diplomat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.115.143 (talk) 20:20, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Saint Petersburg Tibetan Temple[edit]

I believe this section may be in part moved to a new article. After all it is a notable building that has its own importance, and listed as Cultural Heritage of Russia. --Tar-ba-gan (talk) 00:13, 29 December 2009 (UTC)