Talk:Air France Flight 8969

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Casualties[edit]

In the summary of this page, it is stated that there were "7 casualties, including the hijackers". The page also enumerates three civilian casualties; an Algerian Policeman, a Vietnamese diplomat, and an employee of the French embassy. Towards the end of this article is written: "After nearly forty hours of intense negotiations and the loss of three more lives", which would lead me to believe that at this point, no fewer than 6 civilians had been killed. Either the count is incorrect or "and the loss of three more lives" should be changed. Ph0t0phobic 19:53, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

  • During the entire incident only 3 civilians died. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Where do the GIGN trained on a airbus aircraft before the assault? "There is no airport in Neuilly" well, you are maybe right but there are a lot of "Neuilly" in France and it maybe was on a military airfield, i haven't found yet where the training occured. Sensi.fr

  • They trained on the way to Majorca - they were flown there to be close to Algeria, but then flew to Marseille. They were being carried by an A300. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

--- Maybe needs a bit of a tidy up as its very sensationalised....

FireBadger

Which part? Sensi.fr ---

The GIA is linked to Bin Ladin? => perhaps; in any case, the GIA was striving for the establishment of an islamic state in Algeria ==> The GIA is older than Bin Laden

It is the first time that I've ever seen mention of US Marines being involved in this hostage crisis. Is there any confirmation? David.Monniaux 22:20, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)

First time for me too. --172.196.20.2 13:50, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)


what happened to the hijackers? Andy Mabbett 11:28, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC) ==> The were killed by the GIGN


They died. WhisperToMe 03:33, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Demands[edit]

What were the terrorists demands? ozoneliar 17 Jul 2006 (UTC)

They wanted the plane to fly to France, where they had intended to blow it up over the Eiffel Tower. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:45, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Vandalized[edit]

This page was vandalized by someone who didn't logged in. I reveresed it. In particular, unless someone proves that the US gouvernment intervened in this affair, I see no point to mention it.

National Geographic Channel video on AF8969[edit]

I am desperately trying to get hold of a good VHS (DVD :-) ) copy of this show......oakleybr@iafrica.com Brad`198.54.202.226 19:16, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Gibberish[edit]

Someone vandalized the page. Or just had a brain explosion. Either way, I've just deleted the following gibberish. It had nothing to do with the article.

"During this hijacking,the four armed Algerian terrorists where simply trained by Ramzi Yousef and Abdul Murad.The thought of flying hijacked planes into landmarks was designed by Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda.This hijacking was a failure,but 9/11 was a result in Radical Islam and possibly future hijackings."

If it's not gibberish then would someone explain the relevence?

Discrepency with Discovery Channel show[edit]

The article states that "The negotiation team decided to divert the flight to Marseille International Airport, some five hundred miles south of Paris. Air traffic controllers in the tower secretly communicated to the crew of Flight 8969 to tell the hijackers that they didn't have enough fuel to make it all the way to Paris."

However, in a recent Discovery Channel episode of the show "Mayday", titled "Killing Machines", it is stated that the plane really didn't have enough fuel to make it to Paris because the plane's APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) had been left on. The APU is a small jet engine in the tail that primarily provides electrical power for the plane, and it is said to consume 4 tons of fuel per day. They also didn't mention anything about secret communications about pretending about not having enough fuel.

Guspaz 01:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Both sources are correct. In the Discovery Channel episode the captain tells the hijackers that the APU has used so much fuel that they cannot make it to Paris. He did so because he was told to do so. I am a pilot, and I know that the APU of an A300 does not use 4 tons of fuel per day. Also, the plane had extra fuel on board because every flight is loaded with more fuel than necessary, in case of an emergency that requires the plane to stay in the air for an extended period. Obviously the pilot exaggerated the figure and made the situation seem worse than it was to make sure they would land. The truth of the matter is that they could have made it to Paris.

You are a pilot? If so than you must not pilot a heavy. The APU on an A300 does indeed use up to 4 tons of fuel to run for 24 hours. In fact, depending on the load, it can exceed 5 tons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.170.101.237 (talk) 05:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Intelligence reports suggested ...[edit]

I wrote: "Intelligence reports suggested that the hijackers intended to fly the plane into the Eiffel Tower in Paris, or blow it up over the city; a maximum fuel load would make the Airbus into a flying bomb." I can't give a printed or web reference for this (maybe somebody can?). It was stated in a programme on the UK BBC2 television channel which included interviews with many surviving crew, passenger, gendarme, and political eyewitnesses at 21:00 on 29 April 2008 that a mole in the GIA terrorist group informed the French authorities of the intentions of the hijackers. I think the programme can be viewed on the BBC website for 1 week after transmission. Pol098 (talk) 22:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Unlike BBC radio BBC television is only accessible from within the UK. Here's the page for the relevant episode which runs through the salient points including the Eiffel Tower as target. And there was I thinking 'the world changed' on 9/11. Hmmm... Hakluyt bean (talk) 22:39, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

BBC documentaries accessible[edit]

I added some inline cites using Peter Taylor's Age of Terror documentary that I had just heard transmitted on the BBC World Service. It seems both the radio programme and the television episode are accessible from outside the United Kingdom. The 23 minute radio programme can be downloaded as an MP3 podcast from here and the 57 minute television broadcast is viewable via Real Player from here (click on the Episode three link). I added some clarifyme tags to places in the article where I found no source in the radio transmission nor on the web, but I have not yet watched the TV programme. It seems a good idea, when using inline cites, to include the position in a radio or television broadcast in actual minutes and seconds. I have done this in html comments. 84user (talk) 17:28, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Number confusion[edit]

The various figures mentioned in the article probably confuse readers; they certainly do me. It seems TIME magazine contradicts both the BBC radio broadcast and the aviation-safety network (or I'm misreading TIME). I am adding an explanatory footnote.

  • ASN has: Fatalities: 7 / Occupants: 170[1] (meaning at end 163 alive)
  • Taylor says: "Most of the 220 passengers and 12 crew were settling into their seats ... around 11 am four armed men appeared in the cabin"[2]
  • Taylor describes the first two killings[2] (so 218 passengers left)
  • Taylor says: "At 2:30 pm 63 Algerian passengers ... set free"[3] (so 155 passengers left)
  • Taylor describes the third killing[3] (so 154 passengers left)

Synthesis from Peter Taylor: 154 passengers plus 12 crew equals 166 total remaining alive on the aeroplane at the end. 166 plus the 4 now dead hijackers equals 170 occupants stated by the aviation safety network.

  • TIME states at the end: "French gendarmerie stormed the Air France jetliner" ... "killing the four hijackers in a brisk firefight and freeing the plane's 173 passengers and crew."[4]
  • TIME poses a scenario over Paris: "177 people"[4]
  • TIME has at start: "227 passengers"[4]
  • 2 shot: "Algerian policeman" and a "commercial attache at the Vietnamese embassy"[4] (so 225 passengers left)
  • "by the end of Saturday had freed 63"[4] (so 162 passengers left)
  • 1 shot: "a cook"[4] (so 161 passengers left)

Synthesis from TIME: 161 passengers plus 12 crew equals 173 total remaining alive on the aeroplane at the end. Add the 63 freed earlier plus the three shot equals 239 total (227 initial passengers plus 12 crew). 173 plus 4 hijackers equals the 177 in the TIME's scenario, so it is self-consistent.

  1. ^ "ASN Aircraft accident Airbus A300B2-1C F-GBEC Marseille-Marignane Airport (MRS)". Aviation Safety Network. Retrieved 2009-06-01. "26 DEC 1994 Time: ca 17:00 ... Fatalities: 7 / Occupants: 170" 
  2. ^ a b Peter Taylor (2008-06-18). "The Paris Plot". Age of Terror. 0:36 minutes in. BBC. BBC World Service. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/docarchive/docarchive_20080618-1000a.mp3. (mp3 download linked from Peter Taylor (2008-06-18). "The Paris Plot". Age of Terror. BBC World Service. Retrieved 2009-06-01. )
  3. ^ a b Peter Taylor (2008-06-18). "The Paris Plot". Age of Terror. 6:25 minutes in. BBC. BBC World Service. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/docarchive/docarchive_20080618-1000a.mp3.
  4. ^ a b c d e f Thomas, Sancton (2001-06-24). "Anatomy of a Hijack". TIME. Retrieved 2009-06-01. 

84user (talk) 09:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Nationalities of Passengers[edit]

There is a chart on the page breaking down the different nationalities of the passengers on board. Any idea where this information came from? No citation... I work for a news agency and am looking to confirm the nationalities of the passengers during this flight. 64.210.199.233 (talk) 21:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)Matt