Talk:Alabama HB 56

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Permissions[edit]

No permission is needed to be sought when referencing or using information produced from the Alabama state legislature. Please stop deleting this page. This information is free to be viewed by the public. And is public property. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 6749174639201elephant (talkcontribs) 29 Sep 2011

Not true – works of the federal government are public domain but not works of state governments. Wasted Time R (talk) 04:57, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Both above statements are wrong. State publications are not necessarily public domain, but laws are. Also, the short excerpts used in a Wikipedia article will usually be fair use even if the publication is protected by copyright. Jc3s5h (talk) 15:22, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Mercedes-Benz Executive[edit]

The Mercedes-Benz executive being arrested story here has been whitewashed to protect a xenophobic law. Not surprised its Alabama and the South. --JLAmidei (talk) 01:27, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Huh? You and another editor both added material on this and no one has removed anything. If you think it deserves additional treatment, add more yourself. Wasted Time R (talk) 04:57, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Unemployment vs job growth[edit]

The reference to supporters' statements that the law helped reduce unemployment is contrasted here with an academic analysis of the sectors experiencing job growth. If, as supporters believe, the law opened up jobs in construction, agriculture and poultry processing to previously unemployed non-immigrants, then no "job growth" would be necessary to reduce unemployment. --Dystopos (talk) 18:39, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Nuremburg law[edit]

I removed the listing for Nuremburg laws from the list of see also. The Nuremburg laws were designed to target people of a specific ethnicity, regardless of their citizenship status. HB 56 is designed to target people who are in the state illegally. You can argue that the law is institutionalized racism and theres plenty of reason to think this. Wikipedia is not the place to do this. --Arm (talk) 05:11, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. People kept trying to add it as a 'See also' entry in the Arizona SB 1070 article too. It's just another manifestation of Godwin's law. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:21, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

RfC[edit]

BulbBAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:16, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

"Illegal" or "Undocumented"[edit]

I noticed this article has used the terms "legal" and "illegal" and "documented" and "undocumented" at various times. Is there are reason why it's universally legal/illegal right now? I know this is a point of contention for some, but it makes sense to me that legal/illegal describes a crime and documented/undocumented describes a person. Also, less contentious or biased reading. Dronthego (talk) 16:20, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if there is a place in the talk page archives where this has been discussed, but there are a number of reasons why I think "illegal" is better.
  • "Illegal" is used in the Arizona law, not "undocumented", thus its meaning is better defined.
  • "Undocumented" is a politically-correct term invented by those sympathetic to those who are, or might be, illegal aliens. Unlike the governments of the US and the several states, these groups are not in a position to create a clear definition of what "undocumented" means.
  • "Undocumented" could refer to people who are US citizens, but who lack documentary proof of their status. Since US citizens are not required to carry, or even have, documentary proof of their status, these citizens are not illegal in any sense.
Also, "illegal" is different from "criminal". A person could be deported, or otherwise penalized, without necessarily being convicted of any crime. Jc3s5h (talk) 17:23, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
Interesting... Thanks for your thoughts.
As an aside, since writing last I noticed on the SB 1070 page both terms are used.
  • Re: "politically-correct" – both terms have political implications and in my eyes just using the illegal terminology implies a side is being taken.
  • All terms – illegal, criminal, and undocumented – are not ideal descriptors. If I trespass, I am a tresspasser, not an illegal passer. If I shoplift, I am a shoplifter, not an illegal shopper. I just question the use of using only one less-than-ideal set of terms when those terms also has political implications.
Hope that makes sense. -- Dronthego (talk) 17:11, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
I think the political implications comes in if the term "illegal alien" is applied to a person who has not been finally determined by the competent authorities to be present in the US illegally. There are also political implications to applying that label to a group with identifiable members, not all of whom have been finally determined by the competent authorities to be present in the US illegally. I think it is unwise to apply the term "undocumented alien" as a synonym of "illegal alien" because these are two different groups, although many will belong to both groups.
Then there is the abstract concept of illegal alien, that is, we know there are a significant number of people present in the US who are present in violation of the law, but we do not know the identities of most of these people. So the terminology is difficult. Jc3s5h (talk) 18:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)