Talk:Alcoholics Anonymous

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Need help with a dead/non existent link[edit]

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In the references section I attempted to add the dead link template including a date and it is giving me trouble, it looked funny and didn't put the citation where I had actually put it. I am assuming because in this particular instance there are no < ref > tags to put the template between as suggested by another user to me this morning.

This. . . * godaddy (2009). "aaspeak: www.aaspeak.com". online.  is the line in question. Speak Darius (2009)

I have done a little research and the webpage is no longer in existence but can be purchased from godaddy if you wish. I can find no other ref to the data mentioned any where else.

How would you add the dead link citation to a citation with no ref tags? I am trying to get rid of the Unknown parameter |host= ignored error in red text. Thank You ȚttØØditre§ 22:33, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The template didn't have a parameter "host", that was why you were seeing that error. I've removed the parameter and that should now be fixed. It's a Fox! (What did I break) 22:46, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Thank you ȚttØØditre§ 23:57, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Hospitals[edit]

A section was added with information about the relationship between the founders of AA and their experiences at hospitals. While the information is useful, it would be better to find sources that are not directly associated with AA to describe their involvement with hospitals and, presumably, other treatment centers. I don't think that we can make any statements about how it may have helped the founders or other AA members stay sober unless we have some independent verification, not just quotes from the book. The alternative is to insert a bunch of "they claimed that...", which is not all that useful. To the editor who added this text, please think that I am arguing with the content, just the sourcing. I will edit it, but by all means, if others think that it is OK as is, just revert. Desoto10 (talk) 04:34, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you and apologize for the mess up. I wasn't quite thinking correctly at the time I guess, and by all means will add additional sources. I am actually logging out for the evening but will def make an effort to improve this section when I come back.

TattØØdẄaitre§ 04:55, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

No worries. I will look around for reliable, independent sources for the relationship between AA and treatment centers. It is an interesting topic and I am glad you took a shot at it!Desoto10 (talk) 18:46, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Triennial Survey[edit]

"The 1990 commentary evaluated data of triennial surveys from 1977 through 1989 and found that the distribution of those with one year or less indicated that one quarter (26%) of those who first attend an AA meeting are still attending after one year. Furthermore, nearly one third (31.5%) leave the program after one month, and by the end of the third month, almost half (47.4%) leave. Of those who stay for three months, half (50.0%) "

It's not possible to conclude these percentages from the third A.A. triennial survey with any surety. One can only reach the 26% retention percentage in bad faith - by assuming certain conditions which are not explicitly stated in the survey. The survey itself is obviously written by someone deeply estranged from correct statistical methods, leaving the only one possible interpretation of the graph data: That for the explicit time window the survey was taken, only 5% of attendees at meetings were in either in their twelfth month of attendance, or had attended at least 12 months, or had attended for 12 months but less than some other arbitrary period. The condition required to reach the 26% conclusion - that the first datum point of the graph refers to people "in their first month", is clearly stated as being the other way around in the graph title - and as such is ambiguous. It's not possible to reach any percentage stated in this above quote with the surety implied. Frankfff (talk) 22:13, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Intro[edit]

Why on earth should evidence from a cochrane review be excluded from the intro? 79.97.226.247 (talk) 02:43, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

So I have read the summary, and what I have done is worded it so that it would reference and summarize the effectiveness section while at the same time maintain faithfully to the article itself. This study was actually already in the body of the article so I used the shortened reference. Cheers! Coffeepusher (talk) 05:03, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Retention in Lead[edit]

The retention figures from the AA survey and those from other sources should not be confused with efficacy. That someone is or is not attending AA after arbitrary amounts of time says nothing about whether or not the program is effective in dealing with alcoholism. I suggest that we remove the retention figures from the introduction but leave the highest quality efficacy review (the Cochrane study). In any case, the concept from Macintire (sp?) where the argument is presented that only those who have attended for 90 days should be counted in retention counts has been discussed and rejected before, I think. Retention statistics must include those who walk in the door, turn around, and walk out.