Talk:Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Neutrailty

in Central Asia he notrious as a racist who hates all non-whites (Idot (talk) 03:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC))

Have you got any sources to back this assertion, per WP:BLP? Per Ardua (talk) 08:16, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I've heard it often from TV and Radio as I live in the Central Asia, and people who blamed him are based on his interviews (Idot (talk) 01:52, 13 July 2009 (UTC))

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2002/oct/24/20021024-093553-4426r/print/
"Reviving greater Russia"
Originally published 12:00 a.m., October 24, 2002, updated 12:00 a.m., October 24, 2002

...
Back in 1990, Nobel laureate Alexander Solzhenitsyn publicly urged the creation of a "Greater Slavic State" made up of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and northern Kazakhstan to replace the U.S.S.R. The Soviet Union's subsequent dissolution did nothing to mute these yearnings. Mr. Solzhenitsyn himself repeated the call for Slavic unity on the floor of the Duma, Russia's lower house of parliament, in February 1995. That he was given such a forum to call for expanding the Russian Federation was a sure sign of serious political support for the idea. Mr. Solzhenitsyn is hardly alone. Seven years on, the concept of a "Greater Russia" continues to hold great currency among Russian nationalists of all stripes for good reason...

PS just found that Solzhenitsin become notorious not only in Central Asia and Cacasus (according russian racism native inhbitants of Caucasus are not considered as whites), but also in Ukrain due to his neglection of Holodomor (Во Львове Солженицыну не простят отрицание Голодомора (Lvov will not forgive Solzhenitsyn's neglecting of Holodomor)) Idot (talk) 02:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I’m afraid this is egregious nonsense. Nowhere in his writings (or speeches and interviews) can one find Solzhenitsyn spouting racist sentiments about Central Asians or other non-Caucasian peoples. Solzhenitsyn advocated “a clean, loving, constructive Russian patriotism” rooted in spiritual and cultural attachment to the best Russian traditions and not in some racial definition of national identity. He emphatically rejected a “radical nationalist bent” that elevated one’s own nation above all others and that repudiated a “humble stance before Heaven” (see chapters 26 and 36 of 1998’s Russia in Collapse, pp. 474-475 and 482-484 in The Solzhenitsyn Reader (475 for the quote).

In Rebuilding Russia (Farrar, Straus, & Giroux, 1991 for the English-language edition), Solzhenitsyn warned against the “cruel partition” of Slavic peoples, especially Russians and Ukrainians, whose cultural, spiritual, and historical destinies had been inextricably linked for nearly a millennium. He welcomed the break-up of the Soviet Union and the independence of its constituent peoples but called on Russians, Ukrainians, and Belorussians to consider forming a voluntary Slavic federation. But as far back as the third volume of The Gulag Archipelago(published in English in 1978) Solzhenitsyn argued that Ukrainians should be free to choose separation if they so desired. He also opposed accepting arbitrarily drawn “Leninist” borders as a fait accompli.

In dozens of places in his works Solzhenitsyn holds the Soviet regime responsible for the death of millions, even tens of millions, of its citizens as a result of government-induced famine and a brutal and inhuman process of forced collectivization. In the article that he wrote on this subject for Pravda at the beginning of April 2008 (an English-language version appeared in the Boston Globe on April 5, 2008) Solzhenitsyn denied that the millions of peasants who perished as a result of government-induced famine in the Ukraine and the Russian Kuban region died as a result of a genocide perpetrated by Russians against Ukrainians. He in no way denied the criminal responsibility of the communist regime for the deaths of millions of Ukrainian and Russian peasants. In a moving passage in Rebuilding Russia, Solzhenitsyn writes that Communism, not Russian nationalism, was responsible for “the torture chambers of the Cheka from 1918 onward,” for the confiscation of grain in twenty-nine drought-ridden provinces in 1921 and 1922, and for “the pitiless famine of 1932-33” in the Ukraine. He poignantly adds that “as common victims of the communist-imposed collectivization forced upon us all by whip and bullet, have we not been bonded by this common bloody suffering?” It is fair to say that many Ukrainian commentators have distorted Solzhenitsyn’s position beyond all recognition, suggesting quite falsely that he somehow closed his eyes to the terrible suffering of the Ukrainian people as a result of the “pitiless famine” of the 1930’s. But Solzhenitsyn is right to hold the communist regime and ideology—-and not Russia per se—-responsible for this crime. Sklundy (talk) 00:14, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

the fact is that he was very arrogant to Central Asians and they fill very offended by him. so the article in wiki is not neutral (Idot (talk) 02:46, 16 July 2009 (UTC))

This is fine. Good citations are needed for this allegation to be made. Do you have any sources? Where in his writings do you find this? Are there any interviews in which this can be documented? I'm fine with his arrogance towards Central Asians being documented, but it has to be documented and referenced. Only if you have citations for your accusations can the neutrality be disputed. If you think a section on his poor treatment of Central Asians should be added, research needs to be done and presented which supports this. Sklundy (talk) 16:32, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

do you know tha even some russians agree that he was xenophob? if you can read russina may check Владимир БУШИН, "Александр Солженицын. Гений первого плевка" ?ops! a wrong book! but any way there lots of his critics.. (Idot (talk) 02:03, 18 July 2009 (UTC))

Unfortunately, Russian cannot be used to support the English article. Do you have any credible English sources? Even if some claim he was a xenophobe, unless these claims can be substantiated, they have no place on this article. What CAN be added, though, are these accusations. Would this be acceptable to make the article neutral? If we mention the controversy over his claimed xenophobia? 72.73.34.239 (talk) 05:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

unfortunatelly English - is not my native language :-( so may you help with searching English sources? :-) Idot (talk) 01:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Russian can be used to support the English article--Jaro.p (talk) 07:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Of cource he is a racist and antisemite. You kan read this in any Aleksandr book. His book are not popular by many russian people because of his racist point of viev --Jaro.p (talk) 07:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Citation needed. --Borealis55 (talk) 19:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

• possible source that could prove that he is racaist who hates non-whites:
  Francis Fukuyama "Varieties of russian Nationalism" in Jihn Moore (ed.) "Legacies of the Collapse of Maexism", George Mason Univeristy Press, Fairfax, 1994, pp ~59-60
  his main racistic work is "Как нам обустроить Россию" ("How we should arrange Russia") where he told that Kazakhstan, Belarus and Ukraine have no right to exist as countries, so should be annexed by Russia (even by force) and divided to small gubernias (Idot (talk) 15:09, 11 August 2009 (UTC))

• • None of the above is evidence of racism, there might be some evidence of nationalism, but the two terms should not be confused—they are not synonyms. Graham Colm ^Talk 19:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
    • it demends on POV : from Central Asians view he is a racist. You could also say that "Hitler was never racist and was just a nationalist", but other POV also exist, so if you present in the article about Hitler only that point of view it wouldn't be neutral (Idot (talk) 00:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC))
      • Please provide a full quote (in the original language) of the sources and specific passages which explicitly state his racism/nationalism (whatever we want to call it). If possible, please provide an English translation. If not possible, a full quotation and corresponding citation in Russian would be excellent. We can add an "Accusations of Racism" section if you like. That would make the article neutral, but we need the sources and the language to support it! Let us know when you find it so this can be cleared up! Sklundy (talk) 21:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Reliable sources, citation issues and WP:NPOV

I am concerned that this article is not adhering to WP:NPOV and I do not like the continuing use of sources of dubious reliability. Recent edits are not supported by reliable citations and edits are being reverted without full justification and explanation. This has been going on for months. It is important that this high-profile article does not damage the reputation of Wikipedia by what, I perceive as, non-neutrality. I am seriously considering taking advice with regard to blocking editors who continue to edit this article from a biased point of view. Graham Colm ^Talk 21:23, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Could you be more specific? I am of a similar opinion, and there are parties bent on removing all evidence of any (serious) criticism that AS has been subjected to over the years. Galassi (talk) 10:37, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Article protected

I have protected the article for 2 weeks, probably on the WRONG version, because of the ongoing revert war about the nationality/ethnicity in the lead. Just a few remarks: To all parties: the amount of revert warring is disproportionate to the quantity and quality of arguments exchanged between the participants, here on the talk page or elsewhere – which has been close to zero. This reflects poorly on all participants. To Jsqqq777 (talk · contribs): single-purpose accounts who spend their time here doing nothing but revert-warring about things such as inserting "USSR" into as many articles as possible, are unwelcome in this project. Please reconsider your attitude and aims in participating here. – To Borealis55 (talk · contribs): a repeated edit summary like "that's really too much! - see Infobox/citizenship" is uninformative and not a proper justification for a revert. – To Galassi (talk · contribs): your argument that he had "several citizenships" doesn't really link up well with the change you are making – why do you insist on inserting this particular citizenship at that point? Also, "disruptive nonsense rm" is not a constructive contribution to the discussion and not a legitimate justification for a revert, especially since your edit wasn't even removing anything but re-adding something. – To GrahamColm (talk · contribs): I would strongly advise you not to take admin action on this matter, such as blocking other users, since you are evidently involved in the content dispute.

Now please work this out here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:01, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

i notice the reference for "soviet" writer says he is russian.[1] should that be "anti-soviet"? Occoquan (talk) 22:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

He was published in the Soviet Union, and thus was in fact a Soviet writer.--Galassi (talk) 22:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Solzhenitsyn & Putin photos - fakes?

I am not an expert on this but I STRONGLY feel that the Solzhenitsyn & Putin photo in the article looks fake, with pre-Photoshop crudity. My feeling on that is strengthened by having seen a much cruder fake of Putin visiting the dying Solzhenitsyn. Putin's image looked about as convincing as if some Stalinist thug had cut out his picture with a pair of blunt scissors and pasted it in next to Solzhenitsyn with a mixture of bread and water. It was printed in all the Western papers without comment.

I remember thinking, the Russians might have to take this bull, but SURELY this should raise a few eyebrows here. Solzhenitsyn is regarded by many in Russia, and outside, as about as close to Mandela as you could get. Like Mandela, he suffered prison, but was released and won a Nobel Prize, and saw his vision vindicated. Putin could not possibly allow himself to be seen as being off side with this "saint". But Solzhenitsyn's view of Putin was simply to see him for what he was - a KGB assassin who , since then, has been DIRECTLY responsible for the murder of journalists and citizens who oppose him, even ones resident in the United Kingdom.

I can understand why the Stalinists who still run things up there would get their goons to doctor up photos showing Solzhenitsyn sucking up to Putin and vice versa, what I CAN'T understand is why we swallow this manifest bullshit. Anyone thinking on these lines? Myles325a (talk) 05:12, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Reversion of recent edits

I have Scammell's book open at pages 76–77, and 153, and no there is no mention of "Koka" but there is "Kirilla" and "Kirochka", which refer to his friend Kiril Simonyan. It says on page 153 that (Captain Ezepov) had "copies of all correspondence between Solzhenitsyn, Nikolia, Natalia, Kirill, and Lydia from April 1944 to February 1945", which is why I changed "friend" to "friends". Nowhere on the pages cited does it say "fellow officer. The second "reference" that you have restored just says "Current Biography, 1969". What does this refer to? And what is the full citation? Furthermore, the Russian reference cited, from "Black Fire Pandemonium" is not a reliable source. I will restore my changes until this is resolved, as I don't see that "there are MANY citations apropos" as was written in the edit summary. Graham Colm (talk) 17:21, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I have added a citation referring to Vitkevich explicitely, but you deleted it with the previous ones.--Galassi (talk) 18:14, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Which one was that? Graham Colm (talk) 18:21, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Warrax.net one.--Galassi (talk) 18:25, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

As I said above, ""Black Fire Pandemonium" is not a reliable source". It's a biased Russian occult/anarchist site. Graham Colm (talk) 18:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Here's a better one - http://bibliofil.info/book_reviews/politics/solzhenitsyn_treason_spiral//.--Galassi (talk) 19:24, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

This is a blog, and besides I can't see where any of this can be used to support the text that was in the article. Even the original book sounds biased. "Solzhenitsyn's spiral of deceit". Exactly who is Томаш РЖЕЗАЧ? Can you enlighten me? Graham Colm (talk) 20:13, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Tomas Rezac (needs diacritics) (1935-1992) was a Czech journalist and detective fiction writer who knew AS in Switzerland. His book is much reviled by the Russian pro-AS contingent. I don't trust it fully, but there is a lot of negative info in it that is not discountable. There is a better book still, A.Ostrovsky http://www.litru.ru/br/?b=120348&p=1.--Galassi (talk) 20:32, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

This is not a book. Among other things, it is a website that offers to tell me how I can lose weight quickly! I am not prepared to wade through any more unreliable Russian websites. To watchers of this page, it might seem that we are arguing over a trivial point, but I have been watching this page for years, and the development of this article is being stifled by reversions and biased editing. Although non-English sources are allowed for non-controversial statements, they should not be used for contentious edits that readers who cannot read Russian are unable to check. My views on the quality of Solzhenitsyn's character are irrelevant, and so should those of other editors. We need reliable sources that are easily verifiable if this article is ever to do justice to Wikipedia. There is a wealth of literature on AS in English, please do not add any more contentious material from unreliable Russian sources.Graham Colm (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

You are wrong, it is a book, hardcover - http://reeed.ru/lib/books/solzhenitsyn_proshanie_s_mifom/. The e-version is on ad-supported site, unfortunately. some ads are sof-core pornographic. but that is the way Russia is these days. The book itself is legit, myriad of footnotes.--Galassi (talk) 21:53, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Vietnam War

I wanted to explain my edit. The article originally said that Solzhenitsyn, after arriving in the United States, urged the US "to continue its involvement in the Vietnam War". This is nonsensical, since Solzhenitsyn did not get to the US until mid-1976, over a year after the Vietnam war ended (with the fall of Saigon on April 30, 1975), and his Harvard Commencement speech, in which he commented publicly on the Vietnam war and which this section refers to, was in May 1978, three years after the war ended.

The footnote for the statement was to a August 6, 2008 article in the Independent on Solzhenitsyn's death by Mark Steel. "http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-steel/mark-steel-a-reactionary-called-solzhenitsyn-886115.html". Steel's article in fact said, "Once in America . . . he urged the US to continue bombing Vietnam." That is more specific and still more ridiculous, because US bombing of Vietnam stopped in early 1973 (two years before the war ended and five years before Solzhenitsyn's commencement speech). An earlier version of the Wikipedia article simply copied what Steel actually wrote; someone apparently tried to make that less nonsensical by watering it down.

I know nothing about Steel (his Wikipedia article says he is "a British socialist columnist, author and comedian"), but it is obvious from this article that he is not a historian or a serious commentator on Solzhenitsyn. Steel knows next to nothing about Solzhenitsyn, as he readily admits: the article begins "I had no idea Solzhenitsyn was still alive . . . It was as if someone said 'Have you heard the sad news – Joan of Arc's dead.'". It goes on in that vein: lots of laugh-inducing gag lines but no real knowledge or understanding of Solzhenitsyn's life and work.

Alas, just being in "The Independent" does not guarantee seriousness: one must distinguish between serious journalism and light-hearted, lightweight articles like Steel's. For what Solzhenitsyn actually said on Vietnam, see instead his Harvard Commencement speech (cited in this section).

James Dunlap (talk) 05:43, 28 November 2011 (UTC)