Talk:Alessandra Mussolini

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Biography / Politics and Government (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and government work group (marked as Mid-importance).
 
WikiProject Italy (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles on Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject European Union (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject European Union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the European Union on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Politics (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Porno star[edit]

There is a porno "star" called Alessandra Mussolini - it can't be the same person, can it? Is it some kind of harassement? -Anon

So far as I know, Alessandra Mussolini never appeared in adult films. However, when she was younger, she was a well-known European model whose nude photos are still readily available online. That is probably where the confusion lies. -Anon

Films[edit]

I feel sorry for the person who intends to write up articles for each one of those god-awful films!!--Lacatosias 09:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Whitewashing the facts..[edit]

Here we go again. Someone is trying to disguise the fundamental, undeniable, self-proclaimed fact that this wacko is a fascist in the purest "Salute il Duce", totalitarian sense of that term. Her party is a breakaway from the National Alliance (formerly MSI of Benito Mussolini) because she was disgusted with Fini's rejection of fascism as "the absolute evil" and his demonstration of anti-racism in going to visit Isreal. She is extremely proud of her grandfather and has always done everything within her power to defend his sickening and horrifying fascist record. I wish the footsoldiers of Sam Spade and others on this 'pedia would cut out the attempts to whitewash the history of fascism, nazism and all the other abominable right-wing isms which have caused such damned destruction to humanity over the last century. --Lacatosias 13:42, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


Lol,ban fascism,but allow comunism, that's much worst Dzoni 05:47, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's exactly what I wrote, isn't it? Gosh, I'm taken aback by your brilliant reading comprehension skills.--Lacatosias 13:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, yes, essentially that is what you wrote. "Right-wing isms," whatever those are, you claim have caused incomparable destruction; yet the Soviets caused the same amount of destruction in one single year's time, eg, holodomor. So what was your point exactly? 216.185.250.92 (talk) 06:40, 24 January 2010 (UTC)


I guess he refered to the part in which you blamed the right for attempts to destroy mankind. So there is nothing wrong with his reading comprehension skills. :P PS: Do you really believe that e.g. Hitler was right-wing? He was a damn socialist... (National Socialist German Workers Party, wasn't it?) Kundziad

Yeah its weird. Nazism was an extreme right and it was under a socialist heading. Additionaly Hitler didn't really give a damn about the workers, he used them as weapon building puppets, which created an illusion that he gave them work. Right parties concentrate on giving power and wealth to the government while left parties concentrate on helping people. I am guessing Hitler used the socialist logo in order not to appear to radical and different, virtually all his opponents were other socialists, so he also decided to introduce himself as a socialist, which he obviously wasn't since he used all the resources gathered by population to supply Germany with weaponry. His socialist stance was however justified by the fact that during his reign German people always had work, mostly in war industry. Other than that, no other examples of socialism in Germany were in practice.--Gusiman 07:06, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


Yes, that's right, what I meant was: Communism is a much greater evil to mankind than Fasicism, but this article is made with little or no knowledge on the subject. Luckily Prime minister Berlusconi is a smart man,so he made a coalition with Alessandra's party for this April's electionsDzoni 02:38, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


Wow!! A well-known and documented member of the Italian right-wing terrorist organization of free-masons and mafiosi P2 has made an alliance with an unreconstructed racist who continues to defend a man (her grandfather) who commited one of the most atrocious and underreported genocidal campaigns to extermine black Africans in the history of mankind in Ethiopia.I think that's pretty horrifying regardless of party and ideological labels, don't you?? --Lacatosias 12:14, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Wasn't this "campaign to exterminate black africans" actually just a war against an idependence movement in one of Italy's overseas colonies? the very same thing that had been done by Britian, Germany, Belgium, France, Spain etc etc over the age of empires. Mussolini did allow the use of flamethrowers and poison gas in the war on ethiopia, cruel weapons yes, but weapons that where used by the "good" Britian, United states and, yes, Italy in the first world war. Flamethrower use even continued into the Second world war and Vietnam, while Landmines, arguably even worse weapons as they hang around after the end of a war to maim civilians, continue to be used today by various regimes, even "the good guys". Mussolini may have done some evil things, but what nation and government hasn't at some point?Felneymike (talk) 16:47, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

How exactly is she a fascist? I am not here to debate whether she is or not, but from reading this article, the 'fascist' word has been used very broadly. What does she believe in? I tend to see that maybe she is a feminist blended in with being a believer in traditional women roles in the home, but how does that make her a fascist exactly? This article seems to be very ambiguous and you learn nothing of her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.178.253.3 (talk) 09:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


First, i don't understand how it happened that a discussion about being fascist or not ended with "but Communism is worst". That's definitely OT. Second, i would say that she's obviously a fascist, because of how she defends his grandfather about everything he did, and second because she 's often called fascist and she never denied it, she also said "better fascist than gay" on television. However i wouldn't WRITE that she really is, instead a single phrase, like "she never denied being fascist even if this offense was often being used against her" or something similar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vale.q (talkcontribs) 22:52, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Here's an excerpt[edit]

This a very helpful and informative excerpt from the article fascism which helps to clear up the relationship between fascism and socialism on the one hand - fascism was fundamentally anti-socialist from the very beginning - and provides a throughly documented account of the actions of Allesandra's beloved grandfather on the other. Please read and educate yourselves just a tiny bit (if that is even possible):

"In this fluid situation, Mussolini took advantage of the opportunity and, rapidly abandoning the early socialist and republican program, put himself at the service of the antisocialist cause. The fascist militias, supported by the wealthy classes and by a large part of the state apparatus which saw in him the restorer of order, launched a violent offensive against the syndicalists and all political parties of a socialist or Catholic inspiration, particularly in the north of Italy (Emiglia Romagna, Toscana, etc.), causing numerous victims though the substantial indifference of the forces of order. These acts of violence were, in large part, provoked by fascist squadristi who were increasingly and openly supported by Dino Grandi, the only real competitor to Mussolini for the leadership of the fascist party until the Congress of Rome in 1921.

The violence increased considerably during the period from 1920-1922 until the March on Rome. Confronted by these badly armed and badly organized fascist militias attacking the Capital, King Victor Emmanuel III, preferring to avoid any spilling of blood, decided to appoint Mussolini, who at that moment had the support of about 22 deputies in Parliament, President of the Council. Victor Emmanuel continued to maintain control of the armed forces: if he had wanted to, he would have had no difficulties in booting Mussolini and the completely inferior fascist forces out of Rome. Therefore, it is not appropriate to refer to Mussolini's rise as a "coup d'etat" since he obtained his post legally with the blessing of the sovereign of the nation.

As Prime Minister, the first years of Mussolini's reign were characterized by a coalition government composed of nationalists, liberals and populists and did not assume dictatorial connotations until the assassination of Matteotti. In domestic politics, Mussolini favoured the complete restoration of State authority, with the integration of the Fasci di Combattimento into the armed forces (the foundation in January 1923 of the Milizia Voluntaria per la Sicurezza Nazionale) and the progressive identification of the Party with the State. In political and social economy, 'he emanated legislation that favoured the wealthy industrial and agrarian classes (privatizations, liberalizations of rent laws and dismantlement of the unions).

In June of 1923, a new majoritarian electoral law was approved which assigned two thirds of the seats in Parliament to the coalition which had obtained at least 25% of the votes. This law was punctually applied in the elections of 6 April 1924, in which the fascist "listone" obtained an extraordinary success, aided by the use of shenanigans, violence and intimidatory tactics against opponents.

The assassination of the socialist deputy Giacomo Matteotti, who had requested the annulment of the elections because of the irregularities committed, provoked a momentary crisis of the Mussolini government. The weak response of the opposition (the secession of the Aventine), incapable of transforming their posturing into a mass antifascist action, was not sufficient to distance the ruling classes and the Monarchy from Mussolini who, on 3 January 1925, broke open the floodgates and, in a famous discourse in which he took upon himself all of the responsibility for the assassination of Matteoti and the other squadrist violence, proclaimed a de facto dictatorship, suppressing every residual liberty and completing the identification of the Fascist Party with the State.

From 1925 until the middle of the 1930's, fascism experienced little and isolated opposition, although that which it experienced was memorable, consisting in large part of communists such as Antonio Gramsci, socialists such as Pietro Nenni and liberals such as Piero Gobetti and Giovanni Amendola.

While failing to outline a coherent program, fascism evolved into a new political and economic system that combined corporatism, totalitarianism, nationalism, and anti-Communism in a state designed to bind all classes together under a capitalist system. This was a new capitalist system, however, one in which the state seized control of the organization of vital industries. Under the banners of nationalism and state power, Fascism seemed to synthesize the glorious Roman past with a futuristic utopia.

Despite the themes of social and economic reform in the initial Fascist manifesto of June 1919, the 'movement came to be supported by sections of the middle class fearful of socialism and communism. Industrialists and landowners supported the movement as a defense against labour militancy. Under threat of a fascist March on Rome, in October 1922, Mussolini assumed the premiership of a right-wing coalition Cabinet initially including members of the pro-church Partito Popolare (People's Party).

The regime's most lasting political achievement was perhaps the Lateran Treaty of February 1929 between the Italian state and the Holy See. Under this treaty, the Papacy was granted temporal sovereignty over the Vatican City and guaranteed the free exercise of Roman Catholicism as the sole state religion throughout Italy in return for its acceptance of Italian sovereignty over the Pope's former dominions.

In the 1930s, Italy recovered from the Great Depression, and achieved economic growth in part by developing domestic substitutes for imports (Autarchia). The draining of the malaria-infested Pontine Marshes south of Rome was one of the regime's proudest boasts. But growth was undermined by international sanctions following Italy's October 1935 invasion of Ethiopia (the Abyssinia crisis), and by the government's costly military support for Franco's Nationalists in Spain.

The invasion of Ethiopia was accomplished rapidly (the proclamation of Empire took place in May of 1936) and involved several 'atrocities such as the use of chemical weapons (mustard gas and phosgene) and the indiscriminate slaughter of much of the local population to prevent opposition.

The armed forces disposed of a vast arsenal of grenades and bombs loaded with mustard gas which were dropped from airplanes. This substance was also sprayed directly from above like an "insecticide" on to enemy combatants and villages. It was Mussolini himself who authorized the use of the weapons: "Rome, 27 October '35. A.S.E. Graziani. The use of gas as an ultima ratio to overwhelm enemy resistance and in case of counterattack is authorized. Mussolini." "Rome, 28 December '35. A.S.E. Badoglio. Given the enemy system I have authorized V.E. the use even on a vast scale of any gas and flamethrowers. Mussolini." Mussolini and his generals sought to cloak the operations of chemical warfare in the utmost secrecy, but the crimes of the fascist army were revealed to the world through the denunciations of the International Red Cross and of many foreign observers. The Italian reaction to these revelations consisted in the "erroneous" bombardment (at least 19 times) of Red Cross tents posted in the areas of military encampment of the Ethiopian resistance. The orders imparted by Mussolini, with respect to the Ethiopian population, were very clear: "Rome, 5 June 1936. A.S.E. Graziani. All rebels taken prisoner must be killed. Mussolini." "Rome, 8 July 1936. A.S.E. Graziani. I have authorized once again V.E. to begin and systematically conduct a politics of terror and extermination of the rebels and the complicit population. Without the legge taglionis one cannot cure the infection in time. Await confirmation. Mussolini." [1] The predominant part of the work of repression was carried out by Italians who, besides the bombs laced with mustard gas, instituted lagers, installed public gallows, killed hostages, and mutilated the corpses of their enemies. Graziani ordered the elimination of captured guerrillas by way of throwing them out of airplanes in mid-flight. Many Italian troops had themselves photographed next to cadavers hanging from the gallows or hanging around chests full of detached heads. One episode in the Italian occupation of Ethiopia was the slaughter of Addis Ababa of February, 1937 which followed upon an attempt to assassinate Graziani. In the course of an official ceremony a bomb exploded next to the general. The response was immediate and cruel. The thirty or so Ethiopians present at the ceremony were impaled, and immediately after, the black shirts of the fascist Militias poured out into the streets of Addis Ababa where they tortured and killed all of the men, women and children that they encountered on their path. They also set fire to homes in order to prevent the inhabitants from leaving and organized the mass executions of groups of 50-100 people. [2]

International isolation and their common involvement in Spain brought about increasing diplomatic collaboration between Italy and Nazi Germany. This was reflected also in the Fascist regime's domestic policies as the first anti-semitic laws were passed in 1938. From that year on, with the publication of the Manifesto degli scienziati razzisti (Manifesto of the Racist Scientists) (in reality about 90% written by Mussolini himself), fascism declared itself explicitly anti-Semite. --Lacatosias 09:12, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

So the Italian fascist government seized control of major industries and banned labor unions. This is exactly what the doctrinaire Communist parties did when they were in power in Cuba, China, Russia and every other communist state. In fascist countries, a middle and upper class clings to state power; in communist countries, a new class of privileged party members pops up and takes all the power from the other classes. To this day, in fact, independent labor unions are illegal in Cuba. The point being there are tangible similarities between fascism and communism. Socialism seems to mean different things to different people. I would argue socialism in its traditional definition hurts the "workers" (who doesn't "work"?) in the long run, but whatever. Governments with the least state control tend to prosper economically, while those with autarky-type governments and heavy economic govt intervention falter (exceptions are countries with NO government, those tend to fall into disarray; a govt needs to exist to enforce laws and contract agreements). --68.11.45.124 17:39, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that there are many similarities, in practice, between communism and fascism. I know there are people who donìt like the use of this term, but to me they are both just different manifestations of totalitarianism. But there are essential differences, in principle, between the two: nationalism is definitional of fascism and is almost contradictory (in principle of course) to the internationalist socialism. Racism is usually definitnional of fascism; not of communism. My point is very simply that fascism is NOT just a warped form of socialism. As you yourself point out, the defintion of socialism is enormously diverse, probably to the point of subjectivity these days. The fact is that many conservative Republicans think that Bill Clinton was a socilaist, for example. There are even some extreme libertarians who consider George W. Bush a socialist (he has, after all, expanded the size of the State rather enormously in the military, homeland security and even Medicare sectors and the national debt has exploded on HIS term). On the other hand, most Western European governments are far to the left of the US on economic issues (more governmental intervention) but far more "Libertarian" than the US on such matters as legalization of drugs, abortion, gay marriage, sodomy laws and these kinds of things. The fact is that all modern economies are "mixed economies". They are neither completely socialist nor completely capitalist. There is a simple reason for this: both of these extremes do not work. I tend to favor much more government intervention in the economy than exists in the US but much less than exists in Italy. On the other hand, I favor complete drug legalization, unlimited abortion rights, gay marriage, infinitely reducing the size of the militaty and the security budgets, extreme civil libertarianism in the legal sense, universal acess to contraception, pornography, etc.. Where does that put me? I am almost certainly classified as a socialist in the US, while I am classified as something I know not what in Europe. In any case, it should be clear why I think it is ridiculously simplistic to insist that fascism is a form of socialism. I despise any form of totalitarinsim or authoritarianism, though, no matter what how it labels itself. But I don't beleive that the free-market is the answer to all of the world's problems either.--Lacatosias 08:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I put this in the edit summary[edit]

I wrote this comment in an edit summary to this article this morning:

she would not deny it; why cover it up; It is better to be a fascist than to be a homosexual "freak" like yourself).

Just wanted to clarify: this last sentence is NOT an assertion of MY opinion. I wrote very hastily and hope this is not misunderstood. The point was: I think this is clearly what A.M. meant by her phrase, in Italian, "E meglio essere un fascista che un frocio." It was clearly intended as an anti-gay, anti-transgender insult in the sense of "it is better to be fascist than a faggot" .No need to beat about the bush. Though, now that I think of it "Faggot" may not be sufficently insulting to get the meaning across. Well, let's leave it as frocio them.--Lacatosias 17:25, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree,she can only be proud of her Grandfather,and you are right,its much better to be Fascist then communist or a homosexual.When I was to Rome last year I met a lot of respected people :doctors,judges and so on,and many of them are publicly fascist,and I got to Lazio-Livorno and I saw that most fans are fasicist,and theres nothing wrong with it.Even Di Canio is.Dzoni 14:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
You are a very sick fellow and a disgrace to all Italians who have ever walked on the face of this earth, sir. Good evening...--Lacatosias 15:37, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Off course,you are not an Italiano,so shut the hell up.You dont know the first thing about Duxx or Fascism,I may school you,if you wantDzoni 10:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I am have 100% Italian genes and ancestry. That means I am Italian as much as a Jew born in Russia is Jewish. But you are right, I am also an American. And my American father and uncles put their lives at risk to liberate this country from the Nazi freaks who had occupied it under authorization (or because of the cowardly weakness) of Il big, fat Grande Pulcinella. My grandfather on my mother's side was a member of the anti-fascist Partito d'Azione and helped to hide members of the glorious resistence under the bed in his house. This is a legacy which I am quite proud of on both sides. My mother lived through it first hand as a child and tells me all that I need to know about the fascist disaster.--Lacatosias 11:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Haha its funny how you are not making sense at all: "Im 100 precent Italian",but then you say "My Americano father".Clearly that you never visited Italia.if you were you would have knew that Alternativa Sociale is at about 5 precent right now,more then ever,and with a new coalition it is bounded to be in the goverment after this election.

As for Partitio d`Azione,I dont wanna be the one to break your ilusions,but it was a mafioso organisation that terorised Italy for many years.Il Duce was famous for fighting criminals,and thats why even the best Italiano player ever PAOLO DI CANIO admitted that Il Duce was a greatest many in our history,not to mention many other people,but I know Americanos like to have it simple,so I`ll just mention Prime Minister berlusconi who said that Duxx was a great man.

Listen,son,"historia is always wrote by the winners",if we won you would have known the real truth,but dont worry son,you`ll learn the truth very soon,as soon as we get to power after April elections.Dzoni 14:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


What?? I said I was 100% Italian in genes and ancestry. My father was born in the US but his father and mother were BOTH immigrants from Italy. My father married my mother (another immigrant from Italy). That's 100% Italian blood (to use a term you would probably prefer). I was born and raised in the States; I now LIVE in Italy and have been LIVING HERE for the last five years. I don't know what Alternativa Sociale's numbers are, but I think you are certainly overestimating them. The polls I have seen put them down at 1% to 2%. As to the Partito d'Azione: it was a party of intellectuals of both the left and the right who opposed fascism. Period. Mafiosi my ass. However, since you did bring it up: better mafiosi than fascista, nonno!! Also, you have already been in power for the last five years, you will be out on April 11 and then Berlu and his henchmen will be in jail, while the rest of you porkers will be eaten alive by the Chinese Communists. Be afraid!! Be VERY AFRAID!!!!!!! We will not boil your children, we will roast them first. HAAAAHAAAAAA!!--Lacatosias 15:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


Hahaha ooo ragazzo,you dont even know how true that is ,son,cause Berlusconi proved it many times,how would you like your childeren to be boiled and then eaten.Anyways, the whole Italia is getting to know that Communists like you are the greatest plague to us.Libro e moschetto - fascista perfetto,people are turning back to real values-Alternativa Sociale,theres no question about it,I hope you`ll be glad when you see Alessandra in goverment after election. And yeah,"better mafiosi then fascista" ----thats why you`ll lose this election,cause Prodi and other criminals were destroying this country for waaaay to long,now its time to fight back,I personaly dont like Forza Nuova,but they really done exposed communist mafiosi,now its time for real patriots to take the power.Its all over,you be happy if you get 30 precent in the north,because you wont get more then 10 % in the south.

And dont worry,all of you are going to jail for all the crimes you did to Italia,all of you,we didnt forget from Prodi to Francesco Rutelli,all of you will pay for what you did.

p.s.Off course Credere, Obbedire, Combattere ALTERNATIVA SOCIALEDzoni 10:23, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, yes, blah, blah. OK, that's enough. This it turning into a blog.--Lacatosias 10:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Think what you will,me ne frego,but will see whos right in a about a weekDzoni 14:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I just did!! HAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! Alternative: 1% as I said!!--Lacatosias 14:56, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Correction: alternativa sociale: 0.7%!! Thank god!!--Lacatosias 08:01, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

ARE YOU HAPPY NOW YOU BASTARD,WELL IT DOESNT MATTER,WE STILL GOT MORE THEN SOCIALISTAS AND WE GOT OVER 250.000. VOTES,PLUS COUPLE OF MILLIONS THAT FINNI TOOK AWAY FROM US,BUT PEOPLE WILL SEE HIM FOR WHAT HE REALLY IS ,AND THEN THEY WILL VOTE FOR US,BECAUSE ONLY ALESSANDRA MUSSOLINI CAN SAVE THIS COUNTRY AND IF YOU ARE REALLY HAPPY BECAUSE OF THESE DISGRACE RESULTS THEN YOU ARE DUMB,BECAUSE ITS A TRADGEDY,BUT PEOPLE WILL SEE THAT THEY MADE A MISTAKE BY VOTING FOR FINI AND THEY WILL THEN COME BACK TO ALTERNATIVE SOCIALE,JUST WHERE THEY BELONG. CONSIDERING THAT ALTERNATIVA GOT ALMOST NO PLACE IN MEDIA COVERAGE,RESULTS ARE GOOD,OVER 250.000. MILLIONS YOUNG ITALINAS SUPPORT US,AND OVER 7 MILLIONS THINKS HIGHLY OF USDzoni 08:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

P.S.THOSE ARE NOT FINAL RESULTS,BECAUSE IF SOME REQUESTS WE MADE GO THRU IT MAY TURN OUT THAT WE HAVE OVER 300.000. VOTESDzoni 08:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm not going to boast about anything. Truth be told, I don't like any of this ridicouls process. There are far too many extremists on both sides: facists and commies all over the damned place. If you total up the extremist votes, you get about 20% fascist (or closet facist and 20% communist (or closet commies). I voted for the moderate Margerita. This system is a catastophe. No one will be able to govern until proportinal represantation is abolished and the small parties are excluded in favor of the stable, alternative US style majoritarian 2 party

system. The president should be elected directly, etc.. I hope all you radical lefties in the US will pay attention to what's happening over here and stop takking about PR as a good electrol system. It sucks! I have never missed the US so much in my life. Either the Democrtacic candidate wins or the Republcian wins. The house and senate is a sperate bracnh altoghether. Absolute brilliance of the founding fathers!! No extremist parties and little wacko extemist inlfuence. I have to live here to take care of my aging mother. Otherwise, I'd be out of the European madhouse before you can finish sneezing.--Lacatosias 08:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

IT SEEMS ITS NOT OVER YET!!!!! PRIME MINISTER BERSLUSCOLNI AND PRESIDENTA ALESSANDRA MUSSOLINI HAVE TOLD THE JURNALIST THAT ELECTIONS HAVE BEEN FIXED....DIASPORA VOTES HAVE BEEN STOLEN....


BERLUSCONI WILL RULE FOR A FEW MORE YEARS AFTER ALL,WITH THE SUPPORT OF ALTERNATIVA SOCIALE!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRAVA ITALIA,FINNALY A RIGHT CHOICE TO MAKEDzoni 06:37, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Who's going to rule in favor of him? The Communist magistrates? Hahahah!! It's over, bud.--Lacatosias 09:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Links

I have deleted the link to Aleksandra Mussolini's photos as it links to one of those dodgy sites that tells you that 'there may be spyware on your computer' and then, almost certainly, loads all kinds of things onto your computer when you allow it to to check.


It may look like its over to you,but let me tell you,its not over yet,theres no way Berlu will let this Maoist to cheat on the will of Italia people.He should have accepted great coalition proposal that Berlu made,because now he will just have to stay in opposition for another 5 years.Dumb communista,he just wanted all powe for himself,but now he will have to go to China and eat some more children.Dzoni 16:06, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


NEW PICture is offensive[edit]

I dont think that it is important to add her picutre from Playboy,one picture is more then enough,but if you want 2,then add something thats more up to Wikipedia,not this communista bullsshit.

If no ones dissagree in the deadline of 24 hours,this picture will be deleted.Dzoni 16:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Naturally, I disagree. That she wasn't just a topless model, but one that got on the cover of Playboy, is important and notable, and nothing to do with communism. AnonEMouse 17:09, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know how anyone links this with communism, but her past is her past and one can not erase it. The picture is relevant. So, it should stay.--72.60.179.223 17:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

~~She did less harm posing for Playboy than she might have done/will do as a politician. And that shoot reveals a half-decent figure, more so than many bloggers (probably).~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.156.43.8 (talk) 15:48, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I will tell you how,you are probably from out of Italia so you dont see it.Well,because Alessadra announced that she will run for Major of Rome in May,now communists are trying to make plots against her,ridiculing her modeling days.

The point is,what her modeling days have to do with a fact that she is one of most respected and loved Italian politicians in lsat 15 years.She is member of Europian Parlament,and putting her toples picture just goes to make her look like some model.

Why dont you put Jackie Kennedys toples pictures that were made on italian beaches while she wasnt looking?

Because everyone would think that it is digusting.Same thing hereDzoni 21:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I still disagree. You're absolutely right that she is a member of European Parliament, and most of the article talks about that; you will notice that is the first picture of her I put up. However, she was also a well known model, and there is nothing disgusting about that. Being featured on the cover of Playboy is not negligible for models. Anyone can have their picture taken on a beach when they weren't looking, but very few will pose for the cover of Playboy. It's very notable. You can't just focus on the part of her career that you like and take out the rest - that would be no better than another writer trying to minimize all mention of her in politics, and focusing only on the modeling. AnonEMouse 13:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


Why dont you then write abou prosecutions of Fascistas after the World War 2.There are areas in Italy where Fascistas still cant say what are their politic conviction,even today.People still look(in some towns like Livorno)at fascistas like they are as bad as comunistas.

In that light,you can see why this picture is bad,because people who see it will say:"Huh.she is not decent enough to represent Duces ideals,she is not as honourable as her grandfather was."

I agree,that Wikipedia,being a encyclopedia,should have as many photographs and writings as posible,but I think it would be a good gesture to remove the picture until the May elections(where Alessandra will run for Major of Rome)are over.Because now she is around 10 precent of support,but thing looks like improving,and this picture can only hurt this good trend.So,please remove it until the elections are over and then I will totaly agree to put this picture and I will even post my picture with Alessandra so you can add that one too.But,until then,please remove it,and after its over I will support it all the way.Dzoni 20:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

What is really offensive is that someone might believe the grand daughter of the worst dictator of italian history to be a capable politician (she never criticised her grandfather). Dzoni, get your fact straights. She will not be the right's candidate as mayor of Rome. Alemanno will be. And not everyone who opposes Mussolini is a communist. Even many right wing people are uncomfortable with her, because they favour democracy over fascism. --Lou Crazy 01:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Oo,You are either a comunista or a frocio,because no right thinking Italiano would ever say that Duce was the"worest dictator".Mussolini was a greatest statesman in Italia historia,but clearly you dont even know of Piazzale Loreto because that could not happened to "worst dictator",that could only happened to an innocent victim.

I could go on and on about how great man and statesman Duce was,but tring to educate comunista is useless job,so think what you will,but let me tell you:EVERY PATRIOT IN ROMA WILL VOTE ALESSANDRA FOR MAJOR.

And yes,she do not "favour fascismo over democracy",she is fascista,off course,but she also is a democrat,so be quiet if you dont know anything about her.Only an uneducated man could talk the way you do,so i will forgive you,but you better ask someone who is either not frocio or who is not comunista about those times and they will tell you that it was glorious times for Italia and they will also tell you that every wise Italian supports Alternativa(although many of them vote other right parties,but still everybody know how great person Alessandra is).Dzoni 07:40, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it's rather clear to everyone what Dzoni's repusive POV is and how he is trying to disguise the hypocrocy of the extreme right and the bruatl truth about his beloved Allesandra in this particular case becasue he is ashamed to admit it: she was shamless and disgraceful putanella long before she became a fascist model of virtue and family values. The picture should stay.--Lacatosias 12:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


Lacatosias,you should be banned for life for using those kind of words.

Just because your mama is and your grandmama was putanellas,that doenst mean that all woman are.

You should be banned forever for using those kind of words,this is not one of your dirty filthy comunistas meetengs where you use all kind of primitve words,you son of a bitch,you better talk with respect,BECAUSE THAT THE NEXT MAJOR OF ROMA THAT YOU ARE TALKIN ABOUT YOU BASTARD

Can somebody please ban this idiot Lacatosias for acting like this,because he deserved itDzoni 15:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Dzoni, sorry, I had misjudged you, and I have to apologize. I thought you were a person with wildly extremist ideas who was trying to influence Wikipedia with extremist contents. Now that I have read more of your contributions, I realixe that you are someone acting as a parody of an extremist, and a very well done parody. You are really funny! Continue this way, your contributions to Talk: pages are invaluable! I will read them every time I need to laugh a bit! Just don't get carried too much with this parody stuff, and don't edit the real articles!
--Lou Crazy 18:50, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Lou Crazy,I think thats just another nickname of Lacatosias.Both names should be banned for lifeDzoni 21:33, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

No, Dzoni, I am not Lacatosias. I also live in a different part of Italy. But this should be good news to you. You have a double audience now! Please go on. Your rants are so amusing! And don't worry, Alessandra Mussolini won't lose the election as Mayor of Rome (especially since she's not a candidate).
--Lou Crazy 05:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
HOOOOO!! Alright now, parody or no parody, bringing in the family, especially between Italians, is way beyond all limits!! That is direct violation of Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Wherever the heck it is. I will have to report this to RFC or something now, in all seriosness. Note that I did not engage in a personal attack and brutal langauge is not a violation of any offical policy (especially if it's in Italian and no one understands it).--Lacatosias 09:56, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Lacatosias(aka Lou Crazy),you started with calling names,and I just told you that just because your mama is putanella,that doesnt mean that Alessandra is,because Alessandra is a person to be proud of.But whatt do you know,you are Amerikan anywayDzoni 15:13, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


HA HA HA[edit]

Since you frocios and comusnistas couldnt prove your point in words,you just blocked me ha ha ha!But,doesnt matter,ROMA WILL STILL GET FIRST FASCISTA MAJOR AFTER 60 YEARS AND THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP IT......Only smart thing to do is to leave Italia and run back to Amerika or,better yet,yor beloved China.Dzoni 13:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

O yes,since the picture is staying by majority,just want to tell you something:PEOPLE WHO SEE IT CAN ONLY GET TO LIKE ALESSANDRA MORE,BECAUSE SHE IS THE BEST LOOKING POLITICIAN IN ITALIA AND IN THE WORLDDzoni 13:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


But,off coure,some of you might not find her pretty,since you prefer male politicians ha ha ha frociosDzoni 13:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad you are so happy, Dzoni! But, since you kept hiding Alessandra Mussolini's photo, maybe it is you who don't like women ;-)
--Lou Crazy 01:40, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


If there was any justice on Wikipedia,you would have be banned from it forever,because of that latest disguting insult you said.But since there is none,I cant expect that to happend.But off course,everyone knows that not a single fascista has ever been a frocio,unlike many hundreds of comunistas like yourself.

AND FOR ADMINISTRATORS:AFTER YOU READ WHAT LOU CRAZY JUST SAID,TELLING THAT I DONT LIKE WOMEN,I URGE AT YOU BO BLOCK HIM FOR AT LEAST 1 WEEK!!!Dzoni 02:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

At least,although i would suggest blocking him for life for such a low-life,petty,disgusting filthy and dirty insult that he made towards meDzoni 02:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


Not explicitly a 'Fascist'[edit]

From what I know, she has never called herself a "fascist" explicitly. Wouldn't "a politician with a fascist sympathies" be a more accurate descriptor than "a fascist politician".

In a recent TV political debate she said she was glad to be fascist, and she said "better fascist than faggot". --Lou Crazy 02:16, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Off course that she is a Fascista,YOU AMERIKANS MIX FASICSMO WITH NASIZAM.being Fasict is proud of every patriotik Italiano.Fascistas are not NAZIS!!Dont mix itDzoni 03:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Dzoni, I see it as follows: the Nazi Party was fascist (small-F) but not Fascist (big-F). The only party that was big-F Fascist has been the Fascist Party (or any other party bearing the term "Fascist"). In the same way, the Boston Tea Party (a new political party here in America) is a libertarian party (small-L), but only the Libertarian Party is Libertarian (big-L). The Democratic Party here in America is Democratic (big-D) but definitely not democratic (small-d). The Republican Party here is Republican (big-R) but hardly republican (small-R).
Now, whereas fascism is not inherently anti-Semitic, Nazism is inherently anti-Semitic; and the Fascist Party definitely had anti-Semitic policies.
The Nazi Party, the Fascist Party, and fascism in general, are all forms of socialism (small-S), but only the Socialist Party is Socialist (big-S). Likewise, the Communist Party (big-C), communism in general (small-C), communitarianism, and syndicalism are all socialist (small-S), albeit they're not as far-right as fascism.
Allixpeeke 16:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Can't we delete OT conversation ? It's embarrassing to read what Dzoni writes (or tries to write in his bad english…) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vale.q (talkcontribs) 22:57, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

This is nicer[edit]

Now that second picture is under the official one,dont move it again,because it is better now(I still think second picture should not be here at all,but anyway thi is better)Dzoni 11:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Link 8 =[edit]

Has nothing to do with citing the meaning of frocio....... and is disgusting.


Si,link numero 8 was a joke,it wasa link to forcio site,so I delete that,because its offendive to both every reader and to Miss Mussolini.

Libro e moschetto - fascista perfetto

I under stand why some of you communistas hate her,but dont ruin the article because of that

Ice Cold 02:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Education[edit]

The degree information contained in the "Education" section seems a little dubious, given that the American University of Rome dosen't grant anything higher than a bachelor's degree. Is there any credible internet source indicating she holds a PhD from there?LondonIce 06:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. European Parliament CV seems it would be a reliable source, but it says "Graduate in medicine and surgery (1993)" nothing about PhD in Chemistry, and it doesn't mention which university. AnonEMouse (squeak) 07:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I checked with John Cabot University Registrar. The University never issued a degree in Agriculture, and Alessandra Mussolini never attended the University. ˜˜˜˜ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.239.120.194 (talk) 15:18, 3 April 2008 (UTC) Again, John Cabot University is not issuing master degrees.

Removed picture[edit]

It was unauthorized,so I removed it. YXYX 02:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Damn this picture just wont get away..........How come someone always wathcing this page? When I was known as dzoni and Ice Cold,even then someone always used to put it right back after I delete it.....

The new photo of her (purposely horrible)is enough to makes this article politically biased towards libertarianism. Must be changed


Removed picture, 2007[edit]

Its actually a violation of policy on magazine covers which clearly states "If the image depicts a person or persons on the cover, it is not acceptable to use the image in the article of the person or persons depicted on the cover"... since Alessandra is a politician and has modeled a grand total of twice its hardly a historically relevent picture to actually go along with violating policy to include it... a far more relevent and historic image would be a screen shot from the movie "A Special Day" which features her famous aunt too and won a Golden Globe Award as well as been nominated for an Academy Award, since in her early career she featured in far more films than she did modeling. - Animagentile (talk) 22:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I looked around for "policy on magazine covers" and couldn't find such a thing. The most relevant policy or guideline thing we have is Wikipedia:Fair use, which doesn't use that language. You seem to be quoting the Template:Non-free magazine cover which is not the same thing as Wikipedia:Policy, and you're quoting very selectively. The full text of that template is:

Note: If the image depicts a person or persons on the cover, it is not acceptable to use the image in the article of the person or persons depicted on the cover, unless used to directly illustrate a point about the publication of the image. Use of the image merely to depict a person or persons in the image will be removed.

What that means is that you can't automatically go to every article about anyone who has ever been on a magazine cover and put the cover image in their article; the image needs to be important in itself. But it doesn't mean you can't ever use a magazine cover in an article about a person, you can if the image itself is important. The way you quoted that changes its meaning. Frankly, removing the part of a sentence starting with the word "unless" is ... let me try to assume good faith. This meets that sentence, as it is used to directly illustrate a point about the publication of the image, it's used to illustrate the paragraph that talks about her work as a glamour model, her appearance on two Playboy covers, and the fact that this very Playboy cover emphasizes who she is, the granddaughter of Benito Mussolini. Trust me, Playboy covers very rarely trumpet the grandparents of the person they depict, this is a very special case. And "Alessandra is a politician and has modeled a grand total of twice" - that's not really true either, Alessandra was a successful glamour model. Appearing on the cover of Playboy is considered a fair bit of success as a glamour model, that most glamour models work hard to reach, and most never reach. If she had never become a politician at all, we would still have an article on her as the granddaughter of Benito Mussolini who became prominent in a public field, in her case, glamour model. Note we have an article on her father, who was a successful musician, for example. And, of course, in addition to all that she is a rather famous politician, possibly the most prominent representative of ... er, to avoid the "fa" word, let's say an extreme conservative? ... branch of modern european politics, and appeared in Playboy. There are rather few members of that branch of politics unclothed in Playboy. There are very few members of the European Parliament unclothed in Playboy. And she was on the cover, twice, in two countries. If you go to the image page itself where the fair use rationale is given, Image:Alessandra Mussolini Playboy IT Cover.jpg, you will see User:Postdlf and User:Quadell agree, and expand on my fair use rationale. They're both highly experienced editors (and Wikipedia:Administrators, which in theory shouldn't matter as much as the experience, but is easier to check up on). This is an irreplaceable image, meeting our strict fair use criteria, and please don't try to remove it by only citing part of a sentence. --AnonEMouse (squeak) 16:06, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


The image template explicitly says as the very first point about covers that "If the image depicts a person or persons on the cover, it is not acceptable to use the image in the article of the person or persons depicted on the cover"... this is not a historically significant image in the history it adds absolutely nothing which the words do not already get across, please show me anywhere when Alessandra has deemed this a defining moment in her life?

In her early career, Alessandra was far more noted and involved as an actress. She appeared in 13 films, some of which even did include Sophia Loren (her aunt and one of the most famous Italian women ever) and A Special Day even won a Golden Globe Award. Compare that to two Playboy covers and a clear picture of Ms Mussolini's early career begins to emmerge and which is most significant.

A screen shot with full rationale of her in a movie which won a Golden Globe and the expansion of that section to weight it more to historical reality, that she was more involved in films than modeling, would be correct and fairly weighted. Do you have an argument to suggest this isn't the case? When we have thirteen movies, and only two Playboy covers in her career? Insisting on violating the image policy to try and sneak in a picture which shows her nipples, makes it just look like propoganda from a USA POV, as a propogandist way to try take a shot at a relative of Benito Mussolini, just because she is a right wing politician and Fascist leaning. Yes she is good looking, but to violate our policy in a cheap way to get across "uh huh, look, breasts!" is really unnecessary, historically unweighted, against the improvement of this article and most of all against what is on the image template.

Just take a look at this talkpage, a lot of it is very childish, insult throwing that has very little to do with the improval of Ms Mussolini's article on Wikipedia. - Animagentile (talk) 05:33, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you about the talk page. However, that has nothing to do with this issue. If you will look at my contributions to the article: [3] you will see they are, in fact, dedicated to the improvement of Ms. Mussolini's article. That Independent article you keep referencing in your edits?[4] I added it.[5] I didn't merely add the photo of the Playboy cover, I also added the photo of her at the European Parliament,[6] and fought rather hard to keep it, when all other European Parliament photos were being deleted (see Image talk:Alessandra Mussolini.jpg).
I've explained why what you write as "policy" is not what the template says, you seem to be deliberately misquoting it by leaving out the very important next part of the same sentence. If you want to write more about her movie career, I would be all for that; personally I couldn't find reliable source information about that, but if you can, please do put it in. Please don't keep removing the image, that's called edit warring, and will get us nowhere except eventual Wikipedia:Administrator sanctions; I won't take them myself, but just from the fact that two other admins added fair use justifications to the use of the image in this article, you will surely see there will be no lack of other administrators that will if necessary. --AnonEMouse (squeak) 23:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I see you've found she was also a singer, and an album cover. Well done! I can live with that instead of the magazine cover, that seems like a reasonable compromise. I'm not sure why you put October 2007 on all the references, though, the items are from all different dates. --AnonEMouse (squeak) 15:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The new photo of her (purposely horrible) is enough to makes this article politically biased towards libertarianism. Must be changed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.13.7.231 (talk) 11:09, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Introduction sentence[edit]

"Some political journalists assert that Alessandra has done much for women in Italy, as a strong uncompromising character, which is rare for a female in Italian politics."

No matter if a SINGLE journalist said that, you can't just put this in the introduction (the wording "some political journalists" is misleading and wrong, too). This is POV. --lomis (talk) 21:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Its sourced from a reliable place, The Independent (which is even a center-left paper).. that provides neutral information on her place within Italian politics. Its useful information which is reliably sourced. What is POV though is you removing information from a right wing politicians article because you have a communista agenda and don't like it. - Animagentile (talk) 21:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
If you don't believe me, please read and follow this. Sourcing is not enough, you need to accept that "verifiability lives alongside neutrality, it does not override it."

And, by the way - I am no communist. I have no "communista agenda". I am trying to improve neutrality in Wikipedia.--lomis (talk) 22:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe you.
But anyway in regards to policy. The sentence is neutral, because it is from a neutral media source The Independent... not from Ms Mussolini's website or something, it simply states the facts of the situation. Just because you are not at all familiar with Italian politics doesn't mean its not correct. It adds important information, see Bill Clinton's article for a comparison... just because something is deemed positive by neutral sources doesn't mean it should excluded from the article.
So it passed both neutrality test, coming from a non-bias source. It is also vertified with a link in fully English language. Passes with flying colours on both counts. - Animagentile (talk) 23:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The article is written by neo-fascists[edit]

Alessandra Mussolini is a truly disgusting, degenerate person who caused a lot of harm to Italy and Italian soceity. But the article describes her as if she is a wonderful person and an outstanding politician. There is no objectivity in the article at all. The article needs to be re-written.66.65.129.159 (talk) 02:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, because if it is true and real, it has to be written by neo-fascists. Your beloved leftists only writes official lies and difamatory info on every person they opossed, do not matter if it is true or false. It is ugly to see how self-hating anti-white people attacks on nationalist persons just to be "cool"...Eagle of Fire (talk) 19:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

The new photo of her (purposely horrible) is enough to makes this article politically biased towards libertarianism. Must be changed.

I don't know about all that. I must not spend a lot of time in circles where throwing a Fascist salute, or saying the things she is quoted as saying, works to one's social or political benefit. As of the date I edit this talk page, I think this article does a decent job of demonstrating her position and views, repugnant as they may be, and is especially edifying given Berlusconi's tolerance of her within his coalition, and Berlusconi's stated ambition to again seize power in Italy in 2013 with the support of the extreme right. Universaladdress (talk) 08:43, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Picture[edit]

I really do not agree with the photo of Alessandra performing the Fascist salute, does anyone agree with me? I find it absolutely repulsive Milesgilbert (talk) 02:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Well . . . no doubt she is aware that many people find the Fascist salute repulsive, both in Italy and elsewhere, and yet she delivers that salute in full view of the cameras. It seems, in that sense, to be an image that accurately represents the article's subject. How to judge that subject is left up to the reader, and Mussolini has provided ample further evidence to guide the reader's judgment in the quotes the article contains. Universaladdress (talk) 08:35, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

I have restored the image that had stood until 13 April 2014. There is nothing wrong with it, and it is far more recent than the one inserted by User:Charlemagne77, which is 20 years old (the one now in the article is 7 years old). There has also been no discussion, other than what you see just above, as to whether we needed a new picture. If it is changed at all, I would suggest that the new one be an even more recent photo. Kelisi (talk) 05:51, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I have now restored the image once again for the same reasons. Kelisi (talk) 05:57, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
And I'm restoring the 2007 image again. Dismas|(talk) 10:35, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Degree[edit]

she is actually graduated in medicine and surgery (institutional chamber of deputies profile: http://www.camera.it/29?shadow_deputato=33830) LAUD (talk) 16:36, 28 October 2012 (UTC)