Talk:Alexandrov Ensemble

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Names[edit]

Red Army Chorus was, by some degree, the standard English name used by western media.

Also referred to in the past 20 years as the Red Army Chorus & Band and as a Song and Dance Ensemble.

My oldest set of Red Army records list them as the Choir of the Red Army of the U.S.S.R.--tufkaa 21:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The current official name of the ensemble is The Academic Alexandrov Song and Dance Ensemble of the Russian Army (Академического ансамбля песни и пляски Российской Армии им. А.В. Александрова).
Should we change the name?--tufkaa 15:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey where did you copy the "name" from? Why the genitive??? "Академического ансамбля" means kind of: "the academic ensemble's..." or "...of the academic ensemble"

by the way the official name is: Дважды краснознаменный академический ансамбль песни и пляски Российской Армии имени Александра Васильевича Александрова (two times red bannered academic song and dance ensemble of the Russian Army named after Alexander Vassil'evich Alexandrov)

the link on youtube is a bad one! that's kind of copy called "red star red army chorus" or something like that... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.53.208.165 (talk) 18:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

References[edit]

A lot of my information came from the back of old records. Is there a way to reference this?--tufkaa 21:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Instruments[edit]

Contrary to the information given by Analekta, which released a couple of live recordings taken in Canada in 1987 and 1989, the orchestra does not use Russian basson or Russian horn; the orchestra members use standard western counterpars.

  • Thanks for the clarification! You're right, that was the only place I found such information.--tufkaa 16:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Soloists[edit]

I have added details of the soloist Evgeny Belyaev, but removed links to his performances on YouTube, as it appears that previous links made to YouTube have resulted in removal of videos there, on the grounds of insecurity about copyright. However if you search on YouTube for his name in Russian (Евгений Беляев) you will find his performances. (I have just noticed that this contribution has been labelled 1st April, but this is not meant to be a joke). Storye book (talk) 07:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Chorus[edit]

According to section 2.1:

The choir, like other male choirs, consists of three vocal sections of tenor, baritone, and bass.

Most "other male choirs" (Western ones, that is) are divided into two tenor parts and two bass parts, so this is somewhat misleading. However, I won't change it since I have no idea how this choir in particular tends to do things. EldKatt (Talk) 08:54, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Finally after two years we have the answer from one of the choristers (see main article page). In the 1950s and 60s a typical composition was countertenors, 1st tenors, 2nd tenors, baritones, 1st basses, 2nd basses, basso profundos. How Boris found the oh-so-rare profundos, goodness only knows - but you can hear them in the choir (digging a hole in the floor!) in the Song of the Dnieper recording with Frolov as soloist (it's on Youtube). If you listen carefully, in my opinion you can spot the countertenors anywhere the arrangement needed a well-extended chord, e.g. in Sacred War.--Storye book (talk) 15:56, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Sex Bomb[edit]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel that it's rather notable that in The Triple M Musical Challenge, the Red Army Choir covered Tom Jones's "Sex Bomb". I'm not sure if 'something else on Wikipedia' counts as verification, but I've also listened to the song and it's pretty sex. -- 00:09, 10 July 2008

Soloists[edit]

I am currently working on the Soloists section; this is a laborious job as almost all sources have to be translated. Administrators please note that I am working on getting inline references for this - please kindly be patient on this one. Also there is a problem with getting accurate translations (from Russian to English) of song titles. Can anyone assist with this? Thanks. --Storye book (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Basses and Baritones in Soloists section[edit]

Please note that the distinction between bass and baritone can be subjective at the best of times: see the Discussion page for Bass (voice type). When you've been listening to these Russian bass soloists all day, you start feeling that any bass who isn't a subterranean Russian basso profundo must be a bass-baritone. I suspect that most of the soloists whom I've designated "baritone" could sing most European non-profundo bass parts. I'm hoping that someone will kindly check this over objectively. --Storye book (talk) 07:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Expansion of Alexandrov Ensemble article[edit]

The original article is still there: I have now considerably expanded the article, while attempting to treat the original article with respect: it's all still in there, somewhere.
No data yet on choir composition: Having trawled through all the major sources for the Ensemble on the internet, I have found no evidence either way for the above quotation (See "Chorus" above) regarding the inclusion of baritone parts in the choir. Therefore I have left the statement unedited.
New pages for B & A Alexandrov? Although the sections on Alexander Alexandrov and on Boris Alexandrov are now large enough to warrant their own pages, I have not given them their own pages. This is because it would seem that their careers are indivisible from the the Ensemble. However it may be that their own pages might be justified at some point.

Russian-language song titles: I have realised to my dismay that if others are to be able to re-translate the song-titles correctly, then I must provide a Russian song-title next to every song. This will be a long job, and as I don't speak Russian or read Cyrillic, any assistance would be appreciated.
Upgrading this article: Regarding the tags at the top of this page - I think that this article now needs to be reviewed and possibly re-graded. I have followed the links in the tags and looked at the relevant pages, but am not experienced enough to deal with that side of things. Can anyone help with this? Thanks. --Storye book (talk) 09:22, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Two subsidiary pages added[edit]

I have added two subsidiary pages: Alexandrov Ensemble soloists and Alexandrov Ensemble discography. This is because these sections were becoming too large, making the contents list unwieldy, and making it difficult to scroll from one section to another if you found yourself too far from the contents list. I hope that all is well now, but if there's any problem, please kindly post it here. Thanks. --Storye book (talk) 21:34, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Overlap[edit]

Do the ensemble including choir, and the choir really need separate articles? In ictu oculi (talk) 05:07, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Firstly the article was split because it was too big, so the biggest sections were split off to make separate articles. We have much more to add to the choir article, because the origins and structure of the Ensemble choir are important for understanding its propaganda role as part of the history of Russia. The very complex compositions and arrangements written especially for that choir, especially those by the Alexandrovs, require an understanding of the history and composition of the choir for full understanding. An understanding of the choir also contributes to a greater understanding of the musicality of the many great soloists who were previously in the Ensemble choir. A.V. Alexandrov once told his son Boris that the choir was central to the Ensemble, and that without the choir the Ensemble would be nothing. In order to understand the Ensemble, then, it is important to understand exactly what Alexander Vasilyevich meant by this. I could go on, but maybe that's enough for now.--Storye book (talk) 12:34, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
  • I should add that the name "Red Army Choir" represents the whole Ensemble, and not the chorus alone. This name, by which the Ensemble has been known since the 1950s when it started touring outside the USSR, is currently the subject of a Moscow lawsuit, in which the Alexandrov Ensemble has disputed the right of another ensemble to use the name "Red Army Choir" outside Russia.--Storye book (talk) 13:08, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Kazan Cathedral image[edit]

Please do not remove this image without good reason and without discussion. It is there as a reminder of where the Ensemble really comes from. The Alexandrovs were devout Orthodox Christians and were baptised as such during the Soviet era. Stalin was aware of this and protected the Alexandrovs. If you listen to traditional Orthodox church music, and then listen to the Alexandrov's arrangements and compositions for the Ensemble, you will begin to understand the deeper musicality and aims involved. This is not to say that the Alexandrovs were an underground religious movement, sneaking semi-religious music under the nose of Stalin. But if you understand the origins of this music, you can understand the influences and to a great extent how it works. Soviet music did not suddenly appear from nowhere. Pre-Soviet history is tightly bound up in Soviet music. If you remove this reminder of the origin of the music, you risk re-writing history. The Ensemble's director, Malev, is clearly aware of the origins and influences in the Ensemble's music, which is why he is a great director. I think the public should not miss out on this information. Thanks.--Storye book (talk) 21:06, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

All this is interesting and important, I agree. But the lead image in the article is expected to represent the article's subject in the best way possible, and it is the article about Alexandrov Ensemble, and not about the Kazan cathedral. The late 19th century photochrome print of the Cathedral has very few relationship to the Alexandrovs, and should be in the history section, or even removed completely as there are better images directly related and representing the Ensemble. As for fixing the size of thumbnails, see WP:IMAGE, it doesn't prohibit that, and it encourages having the pictures of similar type at similar size. GreyHood Talk 15:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your cooperation. I still had to revert two images to thumbnails again, as they were squashing text between them: against WP guidelines.--Storye book (talk) 18:07, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

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