Talk:Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari

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Untitled[edit]

Grounds for the merge proposal: cf. http://www.unhas.ac.id/~rhiza/saintis/tabari.html "Ali Ibn Rabban Al-Tabari was born in 838 C.E. He was also known as Abu al-Hasan" knd 12:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

problems[edit]

What we have in the article conflicts with the sources that I am posting here

J8079s (talk) 01:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Unreliable source[edit]

I am removing the Plinio Prioreschi sources since he has not specialization for this time period.[1] I have, however, left Prioreschi as a source for medical I have restored the Cambridge university source removed under an editor's personal opinion. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:24, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Two physicians having similar names[edit]

There are two physicians sharing the same last name, "Raban al-Tabarī". It is unclear to me whether they are related. Ibn Abi Usaibia's famous work, Uyun al-Anbaa, has this to say about them:

Raban al-Tabarī. The ruler Jamal al-Dīn ibn al-Qiftī wrote in his book that this Raban al-Tabarī was a Jewish physician and astronomer, born in Tabaristān. Distinguished in medicine, outstanding in geometry and the exact sciences, he translated scientific works. His father Alī ibn Raban was a famous physician, who moved from Tabaristān to Irāq and settled in Samarra. He was an advanced scholar of Judaism. Al-Raban, al-Rabīn, al-Rāb — all these are names for those well-versed in the knowledge of the Jewish law.

Abū Ma`shar was asked concerning the casting of shadows. He discoursed at length until finally he said: "The translators of the version of al-Majistī taken from the Greek did not mention the matter of casting shadows, which is not to be found except in the version translated by Raban al-Tabarī the physician. In the old versions the matter of Ptolemy's casting shadows is not mentioned, neither did Thābit, nor Hunayn al-Qalawsī nor al-Kindī nor any other of those great translators know about it, including the sons of Nawbakht."


Ibn Raban al-Tabarī, i.e., Abū al-Hasan Alī ibn Sahl ibn Raban al-Tabarī. Ibn al-Nadīm al-Baghdādī, the scribe Alī ibn Rubal, tells the following: He was a scribe of Mazyār ibn Qārin, and then was converted to Islam by al-Mu`tasim and became his favorite. Al-Mutawakkil took him to be one of his companions. He was held in high esteem as a man of letters and was al-Rāzī's teacher in medicine. He was born and bred in Tabaristān. One of his saying is: "An ignorant physician instigates death." He wrote the following:

1) "The Orchard of Philosophy," in seven chapters comprising 30 essays which together contain 360 items.

2) "The Pleasures of Life."

3) "The Gem of Kings."

4) "Compendium of the Court."

5) "The Advantages of Different Foods, Beverages and Herbs." [p.533]

6) "The Preservation of Health."

7) "On Charms."

8) "On Phlebotomy."

9) "On Diets."

Quoted from an incomplete English translation published online[2]. This should explain why some sources may suggest a Jewish background for both. Ibn Abi Usaibia doesn't say if they're related though. Wiqi(55) 17:29, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Either way, I wouldn't rely on Plinio to determine anything about anyone during this time period. From what I found about Plinio, he is a doctor?[3]
"Prioreschi completed his MD (1954) at the University of Pavia, Italy, and his PhD (1961) in experimental medicine at the University of Montreal. From 1967 to 1970, Prioreschi was a professor of pharmacology and medicine at Creighton University, School of Dentistry."
AND, if such reliable sources exist then it would be prudent for a certain editor(Rarevogel?), that removed references and referenced information, to present said information on the talk page after removing other references. Correct? --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:39, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
first WP:Assume good faith second Prioreschi is a fine source per WP:RS I have found he is supported by the sources he cites. Other sources to help:Selin, Helaine (1997-07-31). Encyclopaedia of the history of science, technology, and medicine in non-western cultures. Springer. pp. 930–. ISBN 9780792340669. Retrieved 17 May 2011.  Tibi, Selma (2006). The Medicinal Use of Opium in Ninth-Century Baghdad:. BRILL. pp. 313–. ISBN 9789004146969. Retrieved 14 December 2013.  For info on mistaken claims of "Jewish", Iranica on line [4] also has good stuff on his life and works. A lot more can be said about him than we have.J8079s (talk) 00:26, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Excellent. Then you will be able to tell me the source Prioreschi cites for Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari's ethnicity.
And if Prioreschi is a WP:RS, then why is Rarevogel removing a Cambridge University source? Or is Cambridge University, that section being written by Seyyed Hossein Nasr,[5] suddenly not WP:RS?? --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:47, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I've reinstated it, attributing and linking to Hossein Nasr. Dougweller (talk) 11:16, 14 December 2013 (UTC)