Talk:Alice Auma

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I am assuming that by quoting Holy Spirit Movement material included in the Behrend book, I am not infringing on a copyright. Hopefully, it's akin to akin to quoting a speech by Jefferson that's in a social studies textbook in that the Jefferson speech is public property. I'm new to Wikipedia posting and would appreciate some feedback on this. BanyanTree 04:16, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Images[edit]

Does anyone know why the images are not appearing correctly now? They appeared correctly before the last revision, but the last revision did not change anything related to the images. bethenco 11:33, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The images (book cover and map) look fine to me. - BanyanTree 15:41, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Not eschatology[edit]

I am changing the category from Christian eschatology to Christian movements. I don't see what this article has to do with the end-times. 208.20.251.27 21:14, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Move?[edit]

I believe that this page should be moved to Alice Lakwena. She is better known by that name than Auma. Before clicking on the move tab or starting a formal move request, I want to offer a chance for a little prior discussion, to see how controversial the move would be. --Groggy Dice T | C 02:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I think this is the first talk page I ever edited. Good to be back!
Ah, yes - back on topic. As the editor who started this article, I (unsurprisingly) would contest this, though I do see the logic in it. Alice Auma is more precise. From the context of Acholi traditional belief, Alice Auma was a person who lived from 1956 to 2007, Lakwena is eternal and Alice Lakwena was a phenomenon from 1985 to 1987. In order to speak clearly, like in the Economist obituary, which states "Lakwena also offered, in August 1986, to conduct the war for them. And when the rebel commanders ignored him, he and Alice formed their own army", the definitions need to be quite clear. While the Economist seems to be OK with titling their obituary "Alice Lakwena", subtitled with "Alice Auma Lakwena", and then never using "Alice" and "Lakwena" in combination for the rest of the article, I would rather avoid introducing incorrect terminology and then trying to back out of it. In contrast, the BBC article is horribly confusing, referring to "Alice Lakwena" and then "Mrs Lakwena", apparently in sheer ignorance that Lakwena is a spirit and Alice was not married to it. (Let's avoid an exploration of the relationship between spirit and medium). Thanks for the notification on my talk page! BanyanTree 03:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Has this discussion ended? - BanyanTree 22:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I have other issues I find more pressing at the moment. I also understand why you wish to emphasize the distinction between Alice Auma and the Lakwena spirit, which you apparently fear may be blurred in some readers' eyes with a rename. I still feel that it was not plain old Alice Auma who was notable, but the combination, Alice Lakwena. However, since we seem to be the only ones interested in the page name, setting up a contested move is more trouble than it's worth right now for something on my backburner. --Groggy Dice T | C 23:23, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough. I watch this page so will respond when you're ready. - BanyanTree 23:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I've given up my watchlist so you can do as you will here. If you do move the article, please rewrite the intro correctly and not start with "Alice Lakwena (1956 – 10 January 2007)...", which is outright wrong and will irk me greatly if and when I wander back. Thanks, BanyanTree 20:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
And back after a refreshing period of no-watchlist editing. - BanyanTree 20:56, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Crazy[edit]

Quite a few sources including the economist linked here, lay out the case that Auma was quite insane and some of her policies (a prohibition against guns in some cases) lead to the defeat of her "army" I don't see that represented here, in act it seems to imply that she really was inhabited by spirits. I don't think the facts really suport this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjbonacolta (talkcontribs) 04:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I think words like "purportedly channeled" make it clear that Auma was a self-styled spirit medium. There have not been any critical studies done on Auma's mental sanity that I am aware of. While I 'personally' look at religion of all sorts as a form of insanity, I do not think to label her crazy is appropriate. Would you make the case for the article on Pope John Paul II to say that he was insane? -- Thaths (talk) 17:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
The economist atricle in the external link says that her family did say that she went insane. Rjbonacolta (talk) 10:16, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
The words "family" and "insane" do not occur in that article, and I don't see anything in that article that can be read as a family member saying she went went insane. Could you be specific about what you're reading to support your statement? - BanyanTree 10:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
The complete Economist article is unavailable to me because it is "premium content" which I have to pay to view. And as such, it should probably not be listed in the article anyway. I wondered how similar questions of the subject's sanity were dealt with in other Wikipedia articles. Joan of Arc has no mention of her potential insanity. It does have a section with a critical treatment about causes for Joan's visions. A sub-section in the article with well-cited information about the subject's mental condition is fine. But writing her off as insane is simplistic. -- Thaths (talk) 19:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
It's never been clear to me why subscription links are so taboo and, for example, mentioning books, which also cost time/money are OK, especially since The Economist is one of the only sources listed that gets the difference between Lakwena and Auma right. Otherwise, I agree with the content-directed portion of your post. - BanyanTree 21:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Non-neutral stance[edit]

This artical contained violations of the Wikipedia policies on neutrality and verification. One case was the assumption that a woman who emerges childless from two marriages is infertile. Lacking a formal fertility test, the statement needed to be removed.

Additionally, the activities of Alice Auma's "possessing spirit" were written without the obvious qualification that Alice was the only person to describe them. The statement that Alice "was reportedly possessed by a spirit, Lakwena" is unacceptable - it is only Alice who could have reported this. In addition to which, on the day in question she was said to be unable to speak. Therefore at best, after a day on which she was unable to speak, Alice claimed she had been possessed by a spirit.

The statement that "Lakwena left Alice" was non-neutral, and could only rely on statements made by Alice for verification.

Mattd73uk (talk) 10:35, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Tale of Paraa?[edit]

Just a quick google, but I can't find anything about this online, and specific quotes turn up nothing. Anyone have any ideas on where I can find any textual version? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.8.182.115 (talk) 22:24, 4 May 2009 (UTC)