Talk:All-Polish Youth

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"and declares itself opposed to "doctrines promoting liberalism, tolerance, and relativism." "tolerance"-"tolerancja". There is no word about "tolerancja" in All-polish Youth rulez. There is word about "tolerancjonism". Difference is not coincidence Zofey 05:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

"Tolerancjonism"? What's that supposed to be?

"Tolerancionism" is a part of nationalist newspeak. Tolerance for them is "We are tolerant to every ethnic, religious or otherwise minority, we just believe that homosexualism (liberalism, globalism etc) is a sin and thus should be destroyed by any means necessary." In this new lingo the meaning of "tolerancionism" is what the meaning of "tolerance" is for the rest of us: "tolerate everyone and his behaviour as long as he doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't break any laws." rrw

The name "All-Polish Youth" is wrong. The term "wszechpolski" as understood in the twenties, when the movement was formed meant all the former lands of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. As such, the proper English name should rather be "Greater Poland Youth" or "Greater-Polish Youth". rrw.

I thing "All-Polish Youth" is horrible translation. Most of young Polish are normal people - now it seems the all polish youth is nacionalistic, homophobic etc. - it's like lie. (sorry for my English)


I am Polish and I htink is not (officially) nationalistic officially is "patriotic" thought only officially...........

POV[edit]

Please explain what are the POV problems of this article. --Lysytalk 17:58, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Removal of sources[edit]

It would be very good for the community if, ehmm, user "Crusader", will not remove valid academic sources from this article. Article should be better referenced but it would never become so, if sources will be removed. Users are welcomed to improve the article by adding more sources, even when they are not in line with their point of view. - Darwinek (talk) 21:03, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

It would be very good for the community if, ehmm, user "Darwinek", will not make his communistic propaganda around Polish patriotic organizations articles on Wikipedia. Darwinek is a Socialist who want to show Polish patriotic organizations as a nazi garbage. Don't make anymore your left-wing propaganda and everything will be ok, go pray to che fujara.

--Krzyzowiec (talk) 01:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

This is the last reminder to you. Please refrain from personal attacks and shocking incivility and calm down, please. I am not socialist or whatever, this have nothing to do with the article. Also, don't remove valid references which are provided. If you don't believe me, I can insert full citations from that book in Polish. Also, please read WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL, WP:IDONTLIKEIT, WP:CITE and other. Thank you. - Darwinek (talk) 14:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Categories[edit]

I've added some categories for the article, but I have noticed there has been an edit war going on regarding the inclusion of the homophobia category. According to their official website, there are various articles including one that is headlined "All-Polish Youth march against homosexuals". The website itself makes it quite clear that the organization is intolerant of homosexuality and gay people, as much as it is pro-Christian beliefs. According to Wikipedia guidelines, this meets the threshold for inclusion in this category. Please do not delete any of these categories without first discussing the matter on this page and gaining consensus. MassassiUK 16:52, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

On polish Wikipedia this category was removed after discussion. It's true that All-Polish Youth took part in contr-manifestation against "pl:Parada Równości", but as organisation they have stricte conservative programme and their main goal is not to protest anti gay. They declares following things as their goals (short):
  1. School Camp (which include historical lectures and social-political panels)
  2. Historical competitions for youth. etc.
They also are against gay marriage, children adoption by homosexuals couple etc. but it should be connected with conservative line not strictle with homofobia. Andrew18 @ 17:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi Andrew. The All-Polish Youth website itself describes its activities and attitude towards homosexuality quite clearly, which makes it a valid source. I do accept that APY aren't just an anti-gay organisation and that they do other things as well, but they are certainly notable for their anti-gay stance. Their website includes articles about how they have gone on public demonstrations against homosexuality. In the UK, the British National Front went on marches against non-whites, and even though they have a right to their own beliefs, it is still classed as "racism" (the BNF are listed in Category:Racism on Wikipedia). It's the same as with APY. Even though they have a right to oppose homosexuality, be it part of their political or religious beliefs, it is still classed as "homophobia". When I added the categories to the article earlier, I made sure that the article was added to various "Christian" categories as well, which helps to inform people about APY and lets them know that they aren't just an anti-gay organization. Unfortunately, their anti-gay activities and beliefs are highly public and it is something they are particularly noted for. As for the discussion on the Polish Wikipedia, it wouldn't count because this is the English Wiki and has different editors who may not share the same view as the people on the Polish version. MassassiUK 18:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the the consensus on polish Wiki does not count here. But as a Pole I have another view on this organisation than british people. In my country they are not wide know as "homofobic organisation". Previous leaders of this organization have made career in politics (Roman Giertych was a vice prime minister, Farfal is currently a chairman of national TV). Gay organisation are called they "homofobic", but in press and mass-media there is no many apperances of gay-organisation people so this "war" gay-organisation vs All-Polish Youth is going backdoor. The criticism of All-Polish Youth is focused on nazi gestures (media published photos with some All-Polish Youth in nazi poses), not on anti-gay manifestation. In Poland it's stayed as the part of landscape: each gay-manifestation faces anti-gay manifestation and here media does not describe the second as homofobic. We have different circumstances in our country than in west Europe. Andrew18 @ 22:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry Andrew but this is all just your opinion. You personally may have a different view about All-Polish Youth, but you cannot speak for your entire country. The consensus you claim is on the Polish Wikipedia does not count here because in order to gain consensus, you have to have a debate. Considering that only polish-speaking people would be able to debate on the Polish Wiki, you are trying to force editors on the English Wiki to blindly accept their opinion. There is already an accepted definition of what homophobia is on the English Wiki, and the category is used for articles that notably fit that definition. Based on the beliefs and public activities of APY (which they themselves admit to), they clearly fall into the category. They also fit into the categories "Christian Youth Groups" and "Nationalist Organizations", amongst others, and this helps to provide a balanced view of the APY. Unfortunately, we cannot delete details just because you don't find them flattering, and Wikipedia has to include all the relevant details about a subject. Perhaps it is the definition of the word itself that you are having a problem with? If so, you should read the article on Homophobia as well as Category talk:Homophobia, both of which might help. MassassiUK 23:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I know the definition of word "homofobia" and also I agree with you that the consensus on polish Wikipedia DOES NOT count here, co this part of discussion is clear for you and me I guess. The second, whole organisation which does not have in his bylaw homofobic goals should not be defined as strictle homofobic. I think that we should stay only on section in which we write about All-Polish Youth contr-manifestation against gay parades. Category in this case seems to be a one step too far. We cannot add to this article category Category:Nazism due to nazis gestures of their members - but we can write about it in section "controversy". I am not trying to whitewash article, I think that current version of article has too less about controversy, but I'm only against using category in not clear situations. Andrew18 @ 17:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Umm, this whole debate is a bit of too much expression of opinion - how about finding some reliable (third party) sources which describe them as such and then the category can be put in. They are actually homophobic, you know, so it shouldn't be that hard to find the sources. The problem you're going to run into, and which Andrew actually sort of alludes to, is that there is plenty other things wrong with them so their homophobia might be low on the list and hence not readily available in online sources. But let's get a cite or two and then the cat can go in.radek (talk) 00:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Well you wanted sources so I've found some. I think when even the United Nations calls them homophobic, then the category is no longer in doubt. There are literally hundreds of other sources online as well, but I just found a couple. Considering some of the information that I uncovered (and not just about APY making Nazi salutes), I'm beginning to think the APY should be placed in the "Neo-Nazism" and "Hate groups" categories as well. MassassiUK 01:16, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
The category should be fine now - since sources were added. I have no problem with it in fact, just wanted it sourced. As for the other cats - it's a little too much. From what I understand SOME people from this group have also been shown to have connections to Neo nazi hate groups but I don't think the organization as whole has been shown to have such connections. As a whole, they're pretty sketchy though.radek (talk) 01:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

League of Polish Families[edit]

So, the lead says it has been affiliated with the League of Polish Families since 2001, but the article then states that the League of Polish Families broke ties with the group in 2006. Which is it? Also, why does the lead twice state the group's apparently former affiliation with LPR? Ostap 20:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)